Headaches?

[Julie Bove]

I don't know if this could be related to menopause or not. I am not
normally prone to headaches at all. I did get migraines when I was on any
and all GERD meds. That was the start of those. And then they continued
after I was off of the meds but were for sure related to my cycle. Although
I didn't always get them, if I did get them, they came at the start of my
period. But I haven't had a period or a migraine since last May.

A couple of weeks ago, there was something going around where people who had
it said they felt like they were starting to come down with a headache. And
I had the same thing. I would get this little off and on pain above my
right eyebrow. Nothing bad but a tad annoying. Also a bit of a sore
throat. And the others seemed to have this too. But... We were also
having freezing fog and very poor air quality. I chocked it up to that.

But... The air is good now but that weird almost headache has come back.
Again, it is off and on. And at the same time I feel like the back of my
neck on the right side is tense, stiff and swollen. I can rub the muscles
on the left side of my neck with no problems. But I don't need to. Ha!
Because there is no pain there. But I can't reach the stiff part at the
right side of my neck because it also seems that there is some sort of
shoulder or arm thing going on that is preventing me from the full range of
motion. Normally stuff like this goes away in about 24 to 48 hours but this
has been going on for days now. And it started before my husband came home.
So I can't blame the stress of him being here on this!

Has anyone had anything like this happen? Could this be related to
hormones? I have also been having cramps in one leg. But that could be
because I need to replace my compression hose. And I will be doing that
tomorrow. I was just trying to squeeze one more use out of the pair that I
had. I had read that headaches and muscle cramps can be a part of
menopause. Just wondering if this could be that or something else. Thanks!

[n***@yahoo.com]

Post by Julie Bove
I don't know if this could be related to menopause or not. I am not
normally prone to headaches at all. I did get migraines when I was on any
and all GERD meds. That was the start of those. And then they continued
after I was off of the meds but were for sure related to my cycle. Although
I didn't always get them, if I did get them, they came at the start of my
period. But I haven't had a period or a migraine since last May.
A couple of weeks ago, there was something going around where people who had
it said they felt like they were starting to come down with a headache. And
I had the same thing. I would get this little off and on pain above my
right eyebrow. Nothing bad but a tad annoying. Also a bit of a sore
throat. And the others seemed to have this too. But... We were also
having freezing fog and very poor air quality. I chocked it up to that.
But... The air is good now but that weird almost headache has come back.
Again, it is off and on. And at the same time I feel like the back of my
neck on the right side is tense, stiff and swollen. I can rub the muscles
on the left side of my neck with no problems. But I don't need to. Ha!
Because there is no pain there. But I can't reach the stiff part at the
right side of my neck because it also seems that there is some sort of
shoulder or arm thing going on that is preventing me from the full range of
motion. Normally stuff like this goes away in about 24 to 48 hours but this
has been going on for days now. And it started before my husband came home.
So I can't blame the stress of him being here on this!
Has anyone had anything like this happen? Could this be related to
hormones? I have also been having cramps in one leg. But that could be
because I need to replace my compression hose. And I will be doing that
tomorrow. I was just trying to squeeze one more use out of the pair that I
had. I had read that headaches and muscle cramps can be a part of
menopause. Just wondering if this could be that or something else. Thanks!

Headaches sure are part of the process - my last period was 2+ years
ago, and the migraines got milder but didn't stop. Just me, but i've
been identifying some food triggers, some things I never had trouble
with before, or maybe just took a *long* time to make the association.
I've also noticed that when I get one, it's almost immediately followed
by ... um .... intestinal distress. I don't know what that means yet -
cause, effect, or twin effects from some 3rd-party cause.

But the muscle stuff - the limited motion, that sounds like some vitamin
or mineral problem? Potassium or something?

I know you said earlier that you're kind of perpetually on call about your
father. I've been the main person-on-call for both parents, now just my
dad, and even when things are going smoothly, there's a constant
low-grade worry and stress that never really lets up. It can wear the
bleep out of you, and does it so slowly that the wear it causes can
sneak up on you.

I tend to veer off onto my own experience, obviously!

[Julie Bove]

Post by n***@yahoo.com

Post by Julie Bove
I don't know if this could be related to menopause or not. I am not
normally prone to headaches at all. I did get migraines when I was on any
and all GERD meds. That was the start of those. And then they continued
after I was off of the meds but were for sure related to my cycle.
Although
I didn't always get them, if I did get them, they came at the start of my
period. But I haven't had a period or a migraine since last May.
A couple of weeks ago, there was something going around where people who had
it said they felt like they were starting to come down with a headache.
And
I had the same thing. I would get this little off and on pain above my
right eyebrow. Nothing bad but a tad annoying. Also a bit of a sore
throat. And the others seemed to have this too. But... We were also
having freezing fog and very poor air quality. I chocked it up to that.
But... The air is good now but that weird almost headache has come back.
Again, it is off and on. And at the same time I feel like the back of my
neck on the right side is tense, stiff and swollen. I can rub the muscles
on the left side of my neck with no problems. But I don't need to. Ha!
Because there is no pain there. But I can't reach the stiff part at the
right side of my neck because it also seems that there is some sort of
shoulder or arm thing going on that is preventing me from the full range of
motion. Normally stuff like this goes away in about 24 to 48 hours but this
has been going on for days now. And it started before my husband came home.
So I can't blame the stress of him being here on this!
Has anyone had anything like this happen? Could this be related to
hormones? I have also been having cramps in one leg. But that could be
because I need to replace my compression hose. And I will be doing that
tomorrow. I was just trying to squeeze one more use out of the pair that I
had. I had read that headaches and muscle cramps can be a part of
menopause. Just wondering if this could be that or something else.
Thanks!

Headaches sure are part of the process - my last period was 2+ years
ago, and the migraines got milder but didn't stop. Just me, but i've
been identifying some food triggers, some things I never had trouble
with before, or maybe just took a *long* time to make the association.
I've also noticed that when I get one, it's almost immediately followed
by ... um .... intestinal distress. I don't know what that means yet -
cause, effect, or twin effects from some 3rd-party cause.
But the muscle stuff - the limited motion, that sounds like some vitamin
or mineral problem? Potassium or something?
I know you said earlier that you're kind of perpetually on call about your
father. I've been the main person-on-call for both parents, now just my
dad, and even when things are going smoothly, there's a constant
low-grade worry and stress that never really lets up. It can wear the
bleep out of you, and does it so slowly that the wear it causes can
sneak up on you.
I tend to veer off onto my own experience, obviously!
--
pax,
ruth

Thanks! Whatever this was, it is gone now, thankfully. May or may not have
been related or could even be stress. My stress level is really up now.

[Keera Ann Fox]

Post by Julie Bove
I don't know if this could be related to menopause or not. I am not
normally prone to headaches at all. I did get migraines when I was on any
and all GERD meds. That was the start of those. And then they continued
after I was off of the meds but were for sure related to my cycle. Although
I didn't always get them, if I did get them, they came at the start of my
period. But I haven't had a period or a migraine since last May.
A couple of weeks ago, there was something going around where people who had
it said they felt like they were starting to come down with a headache. And
I had the same thing. I would get this little off and on pain above my
right eyebrow. Nothing bad but a tad annoying. Also a bit of a sore
throat. And the others seemed to have this too. But... We were also
having freezing fog and very poor air quality. I chocked it up to that.
But... The air is good now but that weird almost headache has come back.
Again, it is off and on. And at the same time I feel like the back of my
neck on the right side is tense, stiff and swollen. I can rub the muscles
on the left side of my neck with no problems. But I don't need to. Ha!
Because there is no pain there. But I can't reach the stiff part at the
right side of my neck because it also seems that there is some sort of
shoulder or arm thing going on that is preventing me from the full range of
motion. Normally stuff like this goes away in about 24 to 48 hours but this
has been going on for days now. And it started before my husband came home.
So I can't blame the stress of him being here on this!
Has anyone had anything like this happen? Could this be related to
hormones? I have also been having cramps in one leg. But that could be
because I need to replace my compression hose. And I will be doing that
tomorrow. I was just trying to squeeze one more use out of the pair that I
had. I had read that headaches and muscle cramps can be a part of
menopause. Just wondering if this could be that or something else. Thanks!

I blame everything on hormones, but I do notice that diet influences hormones, GERD, whatever. As long as I stay low-carb, a lot of stuff peri and non-peri don't bother me.

[Julie Bove]

"Keera Ann Fox" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:ae880a93-7ad1-4061-a245-***@googlegroups.com...
I blame everything on hormones, but I do notice that diet influences
hormones, GERD, whatever. As long as I stay low-carb, a lot of stuff peri
and non-peri don't bother me.


Interesting! I can't low carb though. I have diabetes and low carb pushes
my blood sugar up over 300. Plus I have gastroparesis and food intolerances
so it really limits my diet.

[Keera Ann Fox]

Post by Keera Ann Fox
I blame everything on hormones, but I do notice that diet influences
hormones, GERD, whatever. As long as I stay low-carb, a lot of stuff peri
and non-peri don't bother me.
Interesting! I can't low carb though. I have diabetes and low carb pushes
my blood sugar up over 300.

Weird. Low-carb was what they used to recommend diabetics before all the current drugs came on the market.

Post by Keera Ann Fox
Plus I have gastroparesis and food intolerances
so it really limits my diet.

I find that I'm running through just about all the symptoms, including the weird one-sided headaches that aren't migraines. I find that food influences the intensity and frequency of such things. You may be able to find something else that helps, like reflexology or essential oils or acupuncture (I'm just thinking out loud).

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Keera Ann Fox
Weird. Low-carb was what they used to recommend diabetics before all the current drugs came on the market.

It's still the only diet that controls diabetes or improves it with or
without weight loss and/or drugs.

And reverses neuropathies, which gastroparesis is, when done long enough
and scrupulously enough to see results.


Susan

[Karen R.]

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Keera Ann Fox
Weird. Low-carb was what they used to recommend diabetics before all the current drugs came on the market.

It's still the only diet that controls diabetes or improves it with or
without weight loss and/or drugs.

I reversed diabetes by dumping all refined carbs -- the "whites". White
rice, white flour, white potatoes. I still eat plenty of whole grain
carbs, and my blood sugar is now well within normal ranges, without drugs.

Karen R.

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Karen R.
I reversed diabetes by dumping all refined carbs -- the "whites". White
rice, white flour, white potatoes. I still eat plenty of whole grain
carbs, and my blood sugar is now well within normal ranges, without drugs.

If you eat plenty of whole grains (that means kernels, once they're
ground they're refined, no matter what color they are) and reversed
diabetes so that a plate of pasta doesn't raise your glucose above 105
or even let's say 140 45-70 minutes after eating without medication,
you're not diabetic.

The "normal ranges" the ADA promotes for HbA1c and fasting bg are way
above the levels at which diabetic damage occurs. A1c above 4.6% is
where cardiovascular disease and mortality risk begins to rise, and
normal, completely unimpaired folks don't see a glucose rise after meals.

I reversed my kidney and nerve damage (since A1c and fasting never
diagnosed my diabetes, they went on for a decade or more) but I still
have diabetes; I just don't run above 110-120 any time, including the
all important one hour after meals.

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php

Susan

[Julie Bove]

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Karen R.
I reversed diabetes by dumping all refined carbs -- the "whites".
White rice, white flour, white potatoes. I still eat plenty of whole
grain carbs, and my blood sugar is now well within normal ranges,
without drugs.

If you eat plenty of whole grains (that means kernels, once they're
ground they're refined, no matter what color they are) and reversed
diabetes so that a plate of pasta doesn't raise your glucose above 105
or even let's say 140 45-70 minutes after eating without medication,
you're not diabetic.
The "normal ranges" the ADA promotes for HbA1c and fasting bg are way
above the levels at which diabetic damage occurs. A1c above 4.6% is
where cardiovascular disease and mortality risk begins to rise, and
normal, completely unimpaired folks don't see a glucose rise after meals.
I reversed my kidney and nerve damage (since A1c and fasting never
diagnosed my diabetes, they went on for a decade or more) but I still
have diabetes; I just don't run above 110-120 any time, including the
all important one hour after meals.
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php
Susan

And yet you never had a formal diabetes diagnosis. And as much as I like
the author of that website, I wouldn't call her an expert.

[n***@yahoo.com]

Post by Julie Bove

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Karen R.
I reversed diabetes by dumping all refined carbs -- the "whites".
White rice, white flour, white potatoes. I still eat plenty of whole
grain carbs, and my blood sugar is now well within normal ranges,
without drugs.

If you eat plenty of whole grains (that means kernels, once they're
ground they're refined, no matter what color they are) and reversed
diabetes so that a plate of pasta doesn't raise your glucose above 105
or even let's say 140 45-70 minutes after eating without medication,
you're not diabetic.
The "normal ranges" the ADA promotes for HbA1c and fasting bg are way
above the levels at which diabetic damage occurs. A1c above 4.6% is
where cardiovascular disease and mortality risk begins to rise, and
normal, completely unimpaired folks don't see a glucose rise after meals.
I reversed my kidney and nerve damage (since A1c and fasting never
diagnosed my diabetes, they went on for a decade or more) but I still
have diabetes; I just don't run above 110-120 any time, including the
all important one hour after meals.
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php
Susan

And yet you never had a formal diabetes diagnosis. And as much as I like
the author of that website, I wouldn't call her an expert.

This directly affects me because i metabolize and respond like a diabetic
but have never had a diagnosis. And I get brushed off by everyone,
when i say i'm certain i'm diabetic. "Oh you just catastrophize. Your
blood sugar has always tested normal. Have some ice cream - it's so
*cute* to watch you shut up about your sugar and eat a load of sugar
like us regular folks. We all have to treat ourselves sometimes! "

I know it's my responsibility to do what i know is important for my body
and ignore my naysayers, but it's hard to maintain against both the
perpetual shoving-it-at-me, and the perpetual anger i feel toward
well-meaning jerks i love.

These references help me a lot, and while the site manager who
aggregates the references is no expert, those look like reliable,
mainstream medical entities who do those studies.

The body's response surely varies MASSIVELY from person to person
and i expect low carb is right for some. Like you, i'm having to place
my body's unmistakeably responses above anybody's blanket advice.

But I sure like the support that site gives me for the path i try to
stay on.

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

On 2/3/2013 11:47 AM, ***@yahoo.com wrote:

Just a note here, I have been formally diagnosed with type 2 DM for many
years and have been DM since at least 1998 when my HbA1c was 6.9%, and
told that I likely had it for at least 10 years prior if not longer by
an endo. I got my formal diagnosis after buying a meter (I'd had kidney
and nerve damage, severe by that time, for many years) and finding I
routinely tested above 200 post meal, even at two hours, not just one.

I am breaking a personal rule not to respond to this noxious troll for
years now by saying this just once:

Julie's a full time usenet parasite and crackpot liar. I've had her
kf'ed for years and don't respond to any of her junk posts, but in this
group, where I've posted for over a decade and I see a lying character
assassination (as frequently occurs elsewhere, I'm told and sometimes
see and ignore) I'm making an exception.

Post by n***@yahoo.com
This directly affects me because i metabolize and respond like a diabetic
but have never had a diagnosis. And I get brushed off by everyone,
when i say i'm certain i'm diabetic. "Oh you just catastrophize. Your
blood sugar has always tested normal. Have some ice cream - it's so
*cute* to watch you shut up about your sugar and eat a load of sugar
like us regular folks. We all have to treat ourselves sometimes! "

You may have to do what I did; get a meter and test your glucose after
meals. And read that phlaunt.com/diabetes web site to see why severely
advanced diabetics go undiagnosed by the current standards for screening
and diagnosis.

Post by n***@yahoo.com
I know it's my responsibility to do what i know is important for my body
and ignore my naysayers, but it's hard to maintain against both the
perpetual shoving-it-at-me, and the perpetual anger i feel toward
well-meaning jerks i love.

Frankly, your mobility, vision, kidney function and life depend on it.
It doesn't matter if you're diagnosed or not; you could end up crippled
and whining all day long on usenet like Julie. The same intervention
applies to insulin resistance or metabolic syndrome as does to managing
type 2.

Post by n***@yahoo.com
These references help me a lot, and while the site manager who
aggregates the references is no expert, those look like reliable,
mainstream medical entities who do those studies.

Anyone who can read or think can become an expert, and she certainly is
one after so many years reading and digesting the literature. I have
disagreements with several of her conclusions, but the overall value of
the site is outstanding.

Post by n***@yahoo.com
The body's response surely varies MASSIVELY from person to person
and i expect low carb is right for some. Like you, i'm having to place
my body's unmistakeably responses above anybody's blanket advice.

Your body, your science experiment. When cereal, sugar and drug
manufacturers pour money into the ADA to keep their crap on your table
and in your body, you have to listen to your own body and the voices of
dissent.

Diabetes and metabolic syndrome are caused by inability to appropriately
metabolize and respond to carb consumption. Carb restriction to some
degree is always the way to go; how low is highly individual.

Protein and fat, the only two essential macro nutrients in human
biology, do not raise bg in type 2, unless you're so badly controlled
and advanced that you've burned off the last of your pancreatic
capacity. Carbs do.

The best thing I did to find my own individual optimal diet for well
being and bg control was to use that testing advice on the flyer on that
site and fitday.com to track everything I ate for years, even weighing
food. My best results come with 50-55% fat, 30-35% protein and the
rest, high fiber, non starchy carbs.

Post by n***@yahoo.com
But I sure like the support that site gives me for the path i try to
stay on.

Good luck with your self management, it's your most important tool; The
ACCORD trial proved that meds plus low fat/high carb increases
mortality, no benefit of glucose control attained that way.

Susan

[Julie Bove]

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Just a note here, I have been formally diagnosed with type 2 DM for
many years and have been DM since at least 1998 when my HbA1c was
6.9%, and told that I likely had it for at least 10 years prior if
not longer by an endo. I got my formal diagnosis after buying a meter
(I'd had kidney and nerve damage, severe by that time, for many
years) and finding I routinely tested above 200 post meal, even at
two hours, not just one.

Okay Susan. I stand corrected then and I apologize for giving false
information. I really did think I had seen something you had posted prior
that said you yourself had diagnosed yourself and that no Dr. had. Or
perhaps I had read something that someone else had posted about you and
remembered that. At any rate, I am sorry for posting something false.

Post by Susan
I am breaking a personal rule not to respond to this noxious troll for
Julie's a full time usenet parasite and crackpot liar. I've had her
kf'ed for years and don't respond to any of her junk posts, but in
this group, where I've posted for over a decade and I see a lying
character assassination (as frequently occurs elsewhere, I'm told and
sometimes see and ignore) I'm making an exception.

I am not a troll and I have been on the diabetes newsgroup for longer than
you are. I am not a parasite and not a liar, but I (just like countless
other people) do get things wrong sometimes I can say that I do not
particularly like you based on many things you have said to and about me.
And I'm sure you know what those things are. Not going to get into all of
that here. Obviously the feeling is mutual. :)

Post by Susan

Post by n***@yahoo.com
This directly affects me because i metabolize and respond like a
diabetic but have never had a diagnosis. And I get brushed off by
everyone, when i say i'm certain i'm diabetic. "Oh you just
catastrophize. Your
blood sugar has always tested normal. Have some ice cream - it's so
*cute* to watch you shut up about your sugar and eat a load of sugar
like us regular folks. We all have to treat ourselves sometimes! "

You may have to do what I did; get a meter and test your glucose after
meals. And read that phlaunt.com/diabetes web site to see why
severely advanced diabetics go undiagnosed by the current standards
for screening and diagnosis.

Post by n***@yahoo.com
I know it's my responsibility to do what i know is important for my
body and ignore my naysayers, but it's hard to maintain against both
the perpetual shoving-it-at-me, and the perpetual anger i feel toward
well-meaning jerks i love.

Frankly, your mobility, vision, kidney function and life depend on it.
It doesn't matter if you're diagnosed or not; you could end up
crippled and whining all day long on usenet like Julie. The same
intervention applies to insulin resistance or metabolic syndrome as
does to managing type 2.

Post by n***@yahoo.com
These references help me a lot, and while the site manager who
aggregates the references is no expert, those look like reliable,
mainstream medical entities who do those studies.

Anyone who can read or think can become an expert, and she certainly
is one after so many years reading and digesting the literature. I
have disagreements with several of her conclusions, but the overall
value of the site is outstanding.

Then that would make *me* an expert too. Right?

Post by Susan

Post by n***@yahoo.com
The body's response surely varies MASSIVELY from person to person
and i expect low carb is right for some. Like you, i'm having to
place my body's unmistakeably responses above anybody's blanket
advice.

Your body, your science experiment. When cereal, sugar and drug
manufacturers pour money into the ADA to keep their crap on your table
and in your body, you have to listen to your own body and the voices
of dissent.

Well I wasn't going to do it but this is the sort of stuff that you post
that ticks me off. You post this, someone will ask you for proof of this
and you'll throw up a link to old information or something that doesn't even
apply here. To me it's just another conspiracy theory.

Post by Susan
Diabetes and metabolic syndrome are caused by inability to
appropriately metabolize and respond to carb consumption. Carb
restriction to some degree is always the way to go; how low is highly
individual.
Protein and fat, the only two essential macro nutrients in human
biology, do not raise bg in type 2, unless you're so badly controlled
and advanced that you've burned off the last of your pancreatic
capacity. Carbs do.

Protein actually *does* raise blood sugar. Just not as much as carbs do.
Has nothing to do with poorly controlled or not. And for some of us, if we
do not eat enough carbs, it can *raise* our blood sugar because our liver
will dump it.

Post by Susan
The best thing I did to find my own individual optimal diet for well
being and bg control was to use that testing advice on the flyer on
that site and fitday.com to track everything I ate for years, even
weighing food. My best results come with 50-55% fat, 30-35% protein
and the rest, high fiber, non starchy carbs.

Post by n***@yahoo.com
But I sure like the support that site gives me for the path i try to
stay on.

Good luck with your self management, it's your most important tool;
The ACCORD trial proved that meds plus low fat/high carb increases
mortality, no benefit of glucose control attained that way.
Susan

[Jette Goldie]

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Just a note here, I have been formally diagnosed with type 2 DM for many
years and have been DM since at least 1998 when my HbA1c was 6.9%, and
told that I likely had it for at least 10 years prior if not longer by
an endo. I got my formal diagnosis after buying a meter (I'd had kidney
and nerve damage, severe by that time, for many years) and finding I
routinely tested above 200 post meal, even at two hours, not just one.
I am breaking a personal rule not to respond to this noxious troll for
Julie's a full time usenet parasite and crackpot liar. I've had her
kf'ed for years and don't respond to any of her junk posts, but in this
group, where I've posted for over a decade and I see a lying character
assassination (as frequently occurs elsewhere, I'm told and sometimes
see and ignore) I'm making an exception.

Susan is a dangerous person - one of these days her advice is going to
kill someone.

[Julie Bove]

Post by Jette Goldie

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes
Just a note here, I have been formally diagnosed with type 2 DM for many
years and have been DM since at least 1998 when my HbA1c was 6.9%, and
told that I likely had it for at least 10 years prior if not longer by
an endo. I got my formal diagnosis after buying a meter (I'd had kidney
and nerve damage, severe by that time, for many years) and finding I
routinely tested above 200 post meal, even at two hours, not just one.
I am breaking a personal rule not to respond to this noxious troll for
Julie's a full time usenet parasite and crackpot liar. I've had her
kf'ed for years and don't respond to any of her junk posts, but in this
group, where I've posted for over a decade and I see a lying character
assassination (as frequently occurs elsewhere, I'm told and sometimes
see and ignore) I'm making an exception.

Susan is a dangerous person - one of these days her advice is going to
kill someone.

Well I don't know if I would go that far but, I do really have a lot of
issues with her. She claims that I am in her KF yet she clearly reads what
I write and responds not directly to me but about me. She does this to
others too. I think her issue with me is that she "diagnosed" me with a
syndrome that I do not have. Twice my Dr. tested me for this, the first
time at her urging. I don't have it. She then wanted me to see *her* Dr.
which I refused to do. So that's it in a nutshell.

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Jette Goldie
Susan is a dangerous person - one of these days her advice is going to
kill someone.

You and Julie will be great friends.

Susan

[Julie Bove]

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Jette Goldie
Susan is a dangerous person - one of these days her advice is going to
kill someone.

You and Julie will be great friends.
Susan

[Julie Bove]

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Jette Goldie
Susan is a dangerous person - one of these days her advice is going to
kill someone.

You and Julie will be great friends.
Susan

Contrary to what you might think, I do get along well with most people.

[Chak]

Post by Susan
Julie's a full time usenet parasite and crackpot liar. I've had her
kf'ed for years and don't respond to any of her junk posts, but in this
group, where I've posted for over a decade and I see a lying character
assassination (as frequently occurs elsewhere, I'm told and sometimes
see and ignore) I'm making an exception.

I can't speak to the troll or parasite part, but I have noticed that she
disagrees with just about everybody about nearly everything, and the
experiences she relates are almost always diametrically opposed to everyone
else's.

Chak

[Julie Bove]

Post by Chak

Post by Susan
Julie's a full time usenet parasite and crackpot liar. I've had her
kf'ed for years and don't respond to any of her junk posts, but in
this group, where I've posted for over a decade and I see a lying
character assassination (as frequently occurs elsewhere, I'm told
and sometimes see and ignore) I'm making an exception.

I can't speak to the troll or parasite part, but I have noticed that
she disagrees with just about everybody about nearly everything, and
the experiences she relates are almost always diametrically opposed
to everyone else's.
Chak

Yes. This is very much true. My likes and dislikes seem not to be the norm
and the way my body reacts to things also doesn't seem to be the norm. Not
that it's a bad thing, but it can be frustrating at times.

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Chak
I can't speak to the troll or parasite part, but I have noticed that she
disagrees with just about everybody about nearly everything, and the
experiences she relates are almost always diametrically opposed to everyone
else's.

For example, despite the fact that I KF her and don't jump into the gang
bangs she brings on herself in every other group, she has repeated, more
times than I can count, that lie about my diabetes.

It's not true, it's never been true, and I've corrected it more times
than I can count.

Susan

[Julie Bove]

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Chak
I can't speak to the troll or parasite part, but I have noticed that
she disagrees with just about everybody about nearly everything, and
the experiences she relates are almost always diametrically opposed
to everyone else's.

For example, despite the fact that I KF her and don't jump into the
gang bangs she brings on herself in every other group, she has
repeated, more times than I can count, that lie about my diabetes.
It's not true, it's never been true, and I've corrected it more times
than I can count.
Susan

Seriously? I have mentioned that only a few times and only after *you*
began attacking me. Obviously I am *not* in your KF or you wouldn't see my
posts!

[j***@upcmail.nl]

On Fri, 8 Feb 2013 07:24:43 -0800, "Julie Bove"

Post by Julie Bove

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Chak
I can't speak to the troll or parasite part, but I have noticed that
she disagrees with just about everybody about nearly everything, and
the experiences she relates are almost always diametrically opposed
to everyone else's.

For example, despite the fact that I KF her and don't jump into the
gang bangs she brings on herself in every other group, she has
repeated, more times than I can count, that lie about my diabetes.
It's not true, it's never been true, and I've corrected it more times
than I can count.
Susan

Seriously? I have mentioned that only a few times and only after *you*
began attacking me. Obviously I am *not* in your KF or you wouldn't see my
posts!

Ladies

Can you 2 agree to disagree and leave it at that?

Tankyou

Jola

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by j***@upcmail.nl
Ladies
Can you 2 agree to disagree and leave it at that?

I believe I mentioned I have her KF'ed/

So I cannot imagine why you felt compelled to post a quote intended to
stir things up.

Susan

[j***@upcmail.nl]

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes

Post by j***@upcmail.nl
Ladies
Can you 2 agree to disagree and leave it at that?

I believe I mentioned I have her KF'ed/
So I cannot imagine why you felt compelled to post a quote intended to
stir things up.
Susan

I think ik have had it with this group.

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by j***@upcmail.nl
I think ik have had it with this group.

I don't think there's been much activity here for years.

But, if it helps, I was referring to what you quoted, not what you wrote.

Susan

[Chak]

Post by Susan
So I cannot imagine why you felt compelled to post a quote intended to
stir things up.

Susan,

Breathe. Take a step back. I know how this is, but you appear to me to be
overreacting a bit.

Chak

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Chak
Breathe. Take a step back. I know how this is, but you appear to me to be
overreacting a bit.

You've read this all wrong.

I'm not excited nor hyperventilating in the least. Internet stuff
doesn't reach that level of importance in my life.

I made a decision to address a chronic problem and move on.

I think it's a good policy for folks who want contentiousness to stop
not to post quoted, otherwise invisible, material that is intended to
keep it going, is all.

Susan

[Julie Bove]

Post by n***@yahoo.com

Post by Julie Bove

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Karen R.
I reversed diabetes by dumping all refined carbs -- the "whites".
White rice, white flour, white potatoes. I still eat plenty of
whole grain carbs, and my blood sugar is now well within normal
ranges, without drugs.

If you eat plenty of whole grains (that means kernels, once they're
ground they're refined, no matter what color they are) and reversed
diabetes so that a plate of pasta doesn't raise your glucose above
105 or even let's say 140 45-70 minutes after eating without
medication, you're not diabetic.
The "normal ranges" the ADA promotes for HbA1c and fasting bg are
way above the levels at which diabetic damage occurs. A1c above
4.6% is where cardiovascular disease and mortality risk begins to
rise, and normal, completely unimpaired folks don't see a glucose
rise after meals.
I reversed my kidney and nerve damage (since A1c and fasting never
diagnosed my diabetes, they went on for a decade or more) but I
still have diabetes; I just don't run above 110-120 any time,
including the all important one hour after meals.
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php
Susan

And yet you never had a formal diabetes diagnosis. And as much as I
like the author of that website, I wouldn't call her an expert.

This directly affects me because i metabolize and respond like a
diabetic but have never had a diagnosis. And I get brushed off by
everyone, when i say i'm certain i'm diabetic. "Oh you just
catastrophize. Your blood sugar has always tested normal. Have some ice
cream - it's
so *cute* to watch you shut up about your sugar and eat a load of
sugar like us regular folks. We all have to treat ourselves
sometimes! "
I know it's my responsibility to do what i know is important for my
body and ignore my naysayers, but it's hard to maintain against both
the perpetual shoving-it-at-me, and the perpetual anger i feel toward
well-meaning jerks i love.
These references help me a lot, and while the site manager who
aggregates the references is no expert, those look like reliable,
mainstream medical entities who do those studies.
The body's response surely varies MASSIVELY from person to person
and i expect low carb is right for some. Like you, i'm having to
place my body's unmistakeably responses above anybody's blanket
advice.
But I sure like the support that site gives me for the path i try to
stay on.

Two things come to mind. Before I got my "real" diagnoses, my blood sugar
was almost always fine when tested. I did go to one Dr. and tested at 110.
He told me I was diabetic and sent me on my not so merry way. No meds. No
meter. No instructions. I was furious and when I told my husband, he
called the Dr. who then said he never told me any such thing. So I saw
another Dr. who only did a 24 hour urine collection and a fasting blood
test. Turns out in those days if I followed a proper diet, my blood sugar
did remain in normal range.

Then you might have pre-diabetes. My daughter has it but never had raised
blood sugar on a test. Her A1c upon diagnosis though was 5.7. Dr. tested
her insulin level and she produces waaay too much. I know two other
pre-diabetics who *only* ever have high blood sugar after lunch. They have
a fine A1c. Test them any other time of the day and their blood sugar is
fine.

The body can be a very finicky thing. I am getting sick of people telling
me stuff like... This is what I do! Or this works for me, so it should
work for you! Yes, I too recommend things to people but just because
something works for me doesn't mean it will work for them. I used to be a
food pusher. But I don't do that now. Especially if it is sweets or junk
food. Nope. I offer healthy food (if I am feeding other people) and allow
them to choose what is right for them. I also try to remember if a person
says they can't eat _____. And it doesn't matter to me what their reaason
is. To me it doesn't have to be a real allergy confirmed by a Dr. If they
know it gives them a problem that's good enough for me. I know I have a lot
of food issues. And I'd suspect that a lot of other people do too. Some of
them realize this and do something about it. Others are either clueless or
in denial or I don't know what.

[Chak]

Post by n***@yahoo.com
The body's response surely varies MASSIVELY from person to person
and i expect low carb is right for some. Like you, i'm having to place
my body's unmistakeably responses above anybody's blanket advice.

Good for you, Ruth. Very sensible.

Chak

[Karen R.]

Drat the new "Follow up" vs. "reply" for Thunderbird's newsgroups. My
apologies to Susan that this replay went private.

Post by Susan

Post by Karen R.
I reversed diabetes by dumping all refined carbs -- the "whites". White
rice, white flour, white potatoes. I still eat plenty of whole grain
carbs, and my blood sugar is now well within normal ranges, without drugs.

If you eat plenty of whole grains (that means kernels, once they're
ground they're refined, no matter what color they are) and reversed
diabetes so that a plate of pasta doesn't raise your glucose above 105
or even let's say 140 45-70 minutes after eating without medication,
you're not diabetic.

Dxed. A1C went from 6.6 to 5.3 by eliminating refined carbs. Yes, my
whole grains are milled (I mill them myself so they are fresh), but
doing so brought my A1C down and keeps it down.

Karen R.

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Karen R.
Dxed. A1C went from 6.6 to 5.3 by eliminating refined carbs. Yes, my
whole grains are milled (I mill them myself so they are fresh), but
doing so brought my A1C down and keeps it down.

A1c is not a good diagnostic tool, though. Nor is fasting glucose.

What is your one hour post prandial blood glucose?

It and two hour post meal testing are the most direct measurement of the
presence of diabetes.

Clearly, your A1c is indicative, but it's not good in determining how
well your glucose is controlled in daily life, the key to avoiding
diabetic complications. It's a sloppy average, and every time you go
above 140, you're accumulating diabetic damage.

When my A1c dropped from 6.9% to 5.2% two weeks after reducing carbs but
still eating significant ones, I felt better but did not realize,
because I was not using a meter to test, that I was still rising above
200 post meal, til I started testing PP.

FBG and HbA1c are just not reliable for so many reasons.

Susan

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Some citations in support of everyone's metabolic control...

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/3/1/16

Abstract
Background
Over the past several years our research group has taken a systematic,
comprehensive approach to determining the effects on body function
(hormonal and non-hormonal) of varying the amounts and types of
proteins, carbohydrates and fats in the diet. We have been particularly
interested in the dietary management of type 2 diabetes. Our objective
has been to develop a diet for people with type 2 diabetes that does not
require weight loss, oral agents, or insulin, but that still controls
the blood glucose concentration. Our overall goal is to enable the
person with type 2 diabetes to control their blood glucose by adjustment
in the composition rather than the amount of food in their diet.

Methods
This paper is a brief summary and review of our recent diet-related
research, and the rationale used in the development of diets that
potentially are useful in the treatment of diabetes.

Results
We determined that, of the carbohydrates present in the diet, absorbed
glucose is largely responsible for the food-induced increase in blood
glucose concentration. We also determined that dietary protein increases
insulin secretion and lowers blood glucose. Fat does not significantly
affect blood glucose, but can affect insulin secretion and modify the
absorption of carbohydrates. Based on these data, we tested the efficacy
of diets with various protein:carbohydrate:fat ratios for 5 weeks on
blood glucose control in people with untreated type 2 diabetes. The
results were compared to those obtained in the same subjects after 5
weeks on a control diet with a protein:carbohydrate:fat ratio of
15:55:30. A 30:40:30 ratio diet resulted in a moderate but significant
decrease in 24-hour integrated glucose area and % total glycohemoglobin
(%tGHb). A 30:20:50 ratio diet resulted in a 38% decrease in 24-hour
glucose area, a reduction in fasting glucose to near normal and a
decrease in %tGHb from 9.8% to 7.6%. The response to a 30:30:40 ratio
diet was similar.

Conclusion
Altering the diet composition could be a patient-empowering method of
improving the hyperglycemia of type 2 diabetes without weight loss or
pharmacologic intervention.


http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/7/1/64

Further decrease in glycated hemoglobin following ingestion of a LoBAG30
diet for 10 weeks compared to 5 weeks in people with untreated type 2
diabetes


Conclusions
A LoBAG30 diet resulted in continued improvement in glycemic control.
This improvement occurred without significant weight loss, with
unchanged insulin and glucagon profiles, and without deterioration in
serum lipids, blood pressure or kidney function. Extending the duration
of time on a LoBAG30 diet from 5 to 10 weeks had little or no further
effect on the hormones and metabolites measured, i.e. a metabolic
equilibrium was established.

[Julie Bove]

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Karen R.
Dxed. A1C went from 6.6 to 5.3 by eliminating refined carbs. Yes, my
whole grains are milled (I mill them myself so they are fresh), but
doing so brought my A1C down and keeps it down.

A1c is not a good diagnostic tool, though. Nor is fasting glucose.
What is your one hour post prandial blood glucose?
It and two hour post meal testing are the most direct measurement of
the presence of diabetes.
Clearly, your A1c is indicative, but it's not good in determining how
well your glucose is controlled in daily life, the key to avoiding
diabetic complications. It's a sloppy average, and every time you go
above 140, you're accumulating diabetic damage.
When my A1c dropped from 6.9% to 5.2% two weeks after reducing carbs
but still eating significant ones, I felt better but did not realize,
because I was not using a meter to test, that I was still rising above
200 post meal, til I started testing PP.
FBG and HbA1c are just not reliable for so many reasons.

A1c is how I was diagnosed. It can be used if it is high. If it is normal
or low, obviously not. And of course fasting isn't always reliable. That
is why I wasn't diagnosed at first.

[Julie Bove]

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Keera Ann Fox
Weird. Low-carb was what they used to recommend diabetics before all
the current drugs came on the market.

It's still the only diet that controls diabetes or improves it with or
without weight loss and/or drugs.

Nonsense Susan.

Post by Susan
And reverses neuropathies, which gastroparesis is, when done long
enough and scrupulously enough to see results.

Again nonsense and you can't provide a cite for that either.

[Jette Goldie]

Post by Keera Ann Fox

Post by Keera Ann Fox
I blame everything on hormones, but I do notice that diet influences
hormones, GERD, whatever. As long as I stay low-carb, a lot of stuff peri
and non-peri don't bother me.
Interesting! I can't low carb though. I have diabetes and low carb pushes
my blood sugar up over 300.

Weird. Low-carb was what they used to recommend diabetics before all the current drugs came on the market.

The diabetic diet recommended to hubby when he was first diagnosed (they
always try "diet and exercise" before they move to drugs) was not
low-carb. In fact it wasn't much different from the diet prescribed to
my granny when she was diabetic 50 years ago, apart from telling him to
avoid those 'diabetic jam' and 'diabetic chocolate (sugar free versions
using artificial sweeteners), just have the real thing in extremely
small quantities!

[Julie Bove]

Post by Jette Goldie

Post by Keera Ann Fox

Post by Keera Ann Fox
I blame everything on hormones, but I do notice that diet influences
hormones, GERD, whatever. As long as I stay low-carb, a lot of
stuff peri and non-peri don't bother me.
Interesting! I can't low carb though. I have diabetes and low
carb pushes my blood sugar up over 300.

Weird. Low-carb was what they used to recommend diabetics before all
the current drugs came on the market.

The diabetic diet recommended to hubby when he was first diagnosed
(they always try "diet and exercise" before they move to drugs) was
not low-carb. In fact it wasn't much different from the diet
prescribed to my granny when she was diabetic 50 years ago, apart
from telling him to avoid those 'diabetic jam' and 'diabetic
chocolate (sugar free versions using artificial sweeteners), just
have the real thing in extremely small quantities!

Many years ago before they had insulin it was pretty much an all fat diet
they were put on. Only prolonged their life slightly.

There is no one diet that works for all of us and we each need to see what
works for us.

[Julie Bove]

Post by Keera Ann Fox

Post by Keera Ann Fox
I blame everything on hormones, but I do notice that diet influences
hormones, GERD, whatever. As long as I stay low-carb, a lot of stuff peri
and non-peri don't bother me.
Interesting! I can't low carb though. I have diabetes and low carb pushes
my blood sugar up over 300.

Weird. Low-carb was what they used to recommend diabetics before all
the current drugs came on the market.

Post by Keera Ann Fox
Plus I have gastroparesis and food intolerances
so it really limits my diet.

I find that I'm running through just about all the symptoms,
including the weird one-sided headaches that aren't migraines. I find
that food influences the intensity and frequency of such things. You
may be able to find something else that helps, like reflexology or
essential oils or acupuncture (I'm just thinking out loud).

Thanks! Whatever that was, it is gone. Dealing with leg cramps now.
Always something.

[Keera Ann Fox]

Post by Julie Bove

Post by Keera Ann Fox

Post by Keera Ann Fox
I blame everything on hormones, but I do notice that diet influences
hormones, GERD, whatever. As long as I stay low-carb, a lot of stuff
peri
and non-peri don't bother me.
Interesting! I can't low carb though. I have diabetes and low carb
pushes
my blood sugar up over 300.

Weird. Low-carb was what they used to recommend diabetics before all
the current drugs came on the market.

Post by Keera Ann Fox
Plus I have gastroparesis and food intolerances
so it really limits my diet.

I find that I'm running through just about all the symptoms,
including the weird one-sided headaches that aren't migraines. I find
that food influences the intensity and frequency of such things. You
may be able to find something else that helps, like reflexology or
essential oils or acupuncture (I'm just thinking out loud).

Thanks! Whatever that was, it is gone. Dealing with leg cramps now.
Always something.

Got those too. Discovered it's a symptom of gluten sensitivity. I realized that I get them only when I eat something with gluten or such like in it, like beer.

[Susan]

x-no-archive: yes

Post by Keera Ann Fox
Got those too. Discovered it's a symptom of gluten sensitivity. I realized that I get them only when I eat

something with gluten or such like in it, like beer.
I get them if I'm low on salt and/or potassium...

Susan

[Julie Bove]

Post by Susan
x-no-archive: yes

Post by Keera Ann Fox
Got those too. Discovered it's a symptom of gluten sensitivity. I
realized that I get them only when I eat

something with gluten or such like in it, like beer.
I get them if I'm low on salt and/or potassium...

That could very well be the problem for me. I did have the big D a couple
of times and following one of those bouts I had a severe pretzel craving.
At least I thought it was pretzels but there were only crumbs left in the
bag and a lot of salt. I ate the salt. Anyway... For me, the big D can
cause low potassium.

[Julie Bove]

Post by Keera Ann Fox

Post by Julie Bove

Post by Keera Ann Fox

Post by Keera Ann Fox
I blame everything on hormones, but I do notice that diet
influences
hormones, GERD, whatever. As long as I stay low-carb, a lot of stuff
peri
and non-peri don't bother me.
Interesting! I can't low carb though. I have diabetes and low carb
pushes
my blood sugar up over 300.

Weird. Low-carb was what they used to recommend diabetics before all
the current drugs came on the market.

Post by Keera Ann Fox
Plus I have gastroparesis and food intolerances
so it really limits my diet.

I find that I'm running through just about all the symptoms,
including the weird one-sided headaches that aren't migraines. I find
that food influences the intensity and frequency of such things. You
may be able to find something else that helps, like reflexology or
essential oils or acupuncture (I'm just thinking out loud).

Thanks! Whatever that was, it is gone. Dealing with leg cramps now.
Always something.

Got those too. Discovered it's a symptom of gluten sensitivity. I
realized that I get them only when I eat something with gluten or
such like in it, like beer.

Not fun! Don't think gluten is a problem for me. I have been tested three
times.

[Keera Ann Fox]

-snip-

Post by Julie Bove

Post by Keera Ann Fox
Got those too. Discovered it's a symptom of gluten sensitivity. I
realized that I get them only when I eat something with gluten or
such like in it, like beer.

Not fun!

Meh. I'm far better off than the folks with classic celiac's disease.

Post by Julie Bove
Don't think gluten is a problem for me. I have been tested three
times.

What sort of tests did you get? Intestinal? Or blood anti-bodies?

FWIW: Gluten sensitivity can affect the body non-intestinally. There's a lot of research now showing that the number of people sensitive to gluten is 10 times higher than previously thought, and most of these people do not show the classic symptoms of celiac disease. Instead, they have problems like IBS, GERD, skin rashes, lupus, osteoporosis, arthritis or even cancer (among other things). The only real way to know if it's gluten/wheat is to just cut the stuff out and see what happens.

I mention this in case somebody else has a body and a family with any of the above ailments. This side of gluten sensitivity is something I've learned only in the last few months and I am bowled over by it.

[Julie Bove]

Post by Keera Ann Fox
-snip-

Post by Julie Bove

Post by Keera Ann Fox
Got those too. Discovered it's a symptom of gluten sensitivity. I
realized that I get them only when I eat something with gluten or
such like in it, like beer.

Not fun!

Meh. I'm far better off than the folks with classic celiac's disease.

That is true!

Post by Keera Ann Fox

Post by Julie Bove
Don't think gluten is a problem for me. I have been tested three
times.

What sort of tests did you get? Intestinal? Or blood anti-bodies?

I had two endoscopies and neither showed damage to the villi. I have also
had IgG and IgE allergy tests and nothing showed there. Daughter had IgG
allergies aka intolerances to gluten. She would get rashes if it touched
her skin and would get sick to her stomach. Thankfully she outgrew that.

Post by Keera Ann Fox
FWIW: Gluten sensitivity can affect the body non-intestinally.
There's a lot of research now showing that the number of people
sensitive to gluten is 10 times higher than previously thought, and
most of these people do not show the classic symptoms of celiac
disease. Instead, they have problems like IBS, GERD, skin rashes,
lupus, osteoporosis, arthritis or even cancer (among other things).
The only real way to know if it's gluten/wheat is to just cut the
stuff out and see what happens.

My mother has arthritis and is very sensitive to wheat in that regard.
Gives her bad pain and stiffness. Nightshades are also a problem for her.

Post by Keera Ann Fox
I mention this in case somebody else has a body and a family with any
of the above ailments. This side of gluten sensitivity is something
I've learned only in the last few months and I am bowled over by it.

Yes!