Discussion:
OT - feeling a bit low today
(too old to reply)
Jette Goldie
2004-02-03 21:31:03 UTC
Permalink
Spent 20 minutes in the loo this afternoon at work, having
a wee cry to myself - then another 10 minutes applying
make up so I didn't look like a woman who'd spent 20
minutes crying in the loo.

Sounds crazy, but I've been missing my mum who died
8 years ago. Sort of started last night when we were
watching a travel show on BBC - one of those shows
where they pick someone and give them the holiday of
a lifetime. This time it was a young family - father and
two little girls (aged about 4 and 8). The mother died
a year or so ago. The grandparents had written to the
BBC telling them about the family, so BBC organised
a "fairy godmother" to take them (plus gran to help
out) to Florida, where they went to every theme park
going, the girls swam with dolphins, cuddled penguins,
had breakfast with 4 princesses (I recognised Snow
White and Cinderella but I'm afraid I'm not very good
on Disney movies, the father got to experience a
racing car on the track (driven by a pro) and the family
even got to lead the afternoon parade at Disneyland.
They had fun - but as I said to hubby "it doesn't make
up for what they've lost" (the father had been interviewed
on camera in tears talking about how much he missed his
wife)

And hubby floored me by saying "Oh, I think they've got
something much better - they'd never have had a holiday
like that if their mum was alive" and he actually BELIEVED
it - that it was worth two little girls losing their mother and
a man losing his beloved wife just so they could get a free
holiday from the BBC!!

Taking this comment along with his comment a few weeks
ago about my dad "having a much better life now that mum
is dead" it shows how *detached* he's become.

(of course it can't help that whenever you talk to his mother
you get the same conversation about how much pain she's
in and how she hopes she hasn't got long to live)


--
"Just when you think
the crying stops
It all begins again
You never stop the hurting
the grieving and the pain"

Jette
***@blueyonder.co.uk
Frankenmel
2004-02-03 22:10:08 UTC
Permalink
>From: "Jette Goldie"

>
>
>Spent 20 minutes in the loo this afternoon at work, having
>a wee cry to myself - then another 10 minutes applying
>make up so I didn't look like a woman who'd spent 20
>minutes crying in the loo.
>
>Sounds crazy, but I've been missing my mum who died
>8 years ago. Sort of started last night when we were
>watching a travel show on BBC - one of those shows
>where they pick someone and give them the holiday of
>a lifetime. This time it was a young family - father and
>two little girls (aged about 4 and 8). The mother died
>a year or so ago. The grandparents had written to the
>BBC telling them about the family, so BBC organised
>a "fairy godmother" to take them (plus gran to help
>out) to Florida, where they went to every theme park
>going, the girls swam with dolphins, cuddled penguins,
>had breakfast with 4 princesses (I recognised Snow
>White and Cinderella but I'm afraid I'm not very good
>on Disney movies, the father got to experience a
>racing car on the track (driven by a pro) and the family
>even got to lead the afternoon parade at Disneyland.
>They had fun - but as I said to hubby "it doesn't make
>up for what they've lost" (the father had been interviewed
>on camera in tears talking about how much he missed his
>wife)
>
>And hubby floored me by saying "Oh, I think they've got
>something much better - they'd never have had a holiday
>like that if their mum was alive" and he actually BELIEVED
>it - that it was worth two little girls losing their mother and
>a man losing his beloved wife just so they could get a free
>holiday from the BBC!!
>
>Taking this comment along with his comment a few weeks
>ago about my dad "having a much better life now that mum
>is dead" it shows how *detached* he's become.
>
>(of course it can't help that whenever you talk to his mother
>you get the same conversation about how much pain she's
>in and how she hopes she hasn't got long to live)

{{{Jette}}} I am so sorry for all your pain.








Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
CG
2004-02-03 22:15:33 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 21:31:03 GMT, Jette Goldie wrote:

>Spent 20 minutes in the loo this afternoon at work, having
>a wee cry to myself - then another 10 minutes applying
>make up so I didn't look like a woman who'd spent 20
>minutes crying in the loo.

I'm sorry this happened.

>
>Sounds crazy, but I've been missing my mum who died
>8 years ago.

Not crazy at all. Every now and then, grief comes back to nibble at
us, even though we think we're well past it. Plus, you're going
through a hard time in your life, and it's not unusual to want to talk
to your parents when life gets rough.

>Sort of started last night when we were
>watching a travel show on BBC - one of those shows
>where they pick someone and give them the holiday of
>a lifetime. This time it was a young family - father and
>two little girls (aged about 4 and 8). The mother died
>a year or so ago. The grandparents had written to the
>BBC telling them about the family, so BBC organised
>a "fairy godmother" to take them (plus gran to help
>out) to Florida, where they went to every theme park
>going, the girls swam with dolphins, cuddled penguins,
>had breakfast with 4 princesses (I recognised Snow
>White and Cinderella but I'm afraid I'm not very good
>on Disney movies, the father got to experience a
>racing car on the track (driven by a pro) and the family
>even got to lead the afternoon parade at Disneyland.
>They had fun - but as I said to hubby "it doesn't make
>up for what they've lost" (the father had been interviewed
>on camera in tears talking about how much he missed his
>wife)
>
>And hubby floored me by saying "Oh, I think they've got
>something much better - they'd never have had a holiday
>like that if their mum was alive" and he actually BELIEVED
>it - that it was worth two little girls losing their mother and
>a man losing his beloved wife just so they could get a free
>holiday from the BBC!!

Well, that would floor me, too. Obviously he didn't used to be like
that.

>
>Taking this comment along with his comment a few weeks
>ago about my dad "having a much better life now that mum
>is dead" it shows how *detached* he's become.

I'm wondering if his detachment is a result of the pain he feels at
arriving at mid-life. I wish I know how to counter such a thing.

>
>(of course it can't help that whenever you talk to his mother
>you get the same conversation about how much pain she's
>in and how she hopes she hasn't got long to live)

{{{{{{{{{{Jette}}}}}}}}}}

I can see where you would be feeling discouraged by this. I don't
blame you one bit for melting down today. But hang in there -- there
is still hope.

Cathering



-- "Everything I've ever let go of has claw marks on it." - Anne Lamott

......You may reply to email in header but be sure to delete the word SPAMFREE from the address.
dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers
2004-02-03 22:45:11 UTC
Permalink
Ack, Jette, a shi**y day indeed.

Sounds perhaps like your other half is hurting about his Mum and trying to
*possibly* rationalise/hide this by his comments? Sometimes people find denial
is the way they can cope - even though it can hurt the ones they love.

Hang in there Jette

gentle *hugs* helen s


--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove dependency on fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e**nd***$o$ts***i*$*$m**m$$o*n**s@$*$a$$o**l.c**$*$om$$
Jette Goldie
2004-02-04 18:17:50 UTC
Permalink
"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" <***@aol.comcomcom> wrote in
message news:***@mb-m25.aol.com...
> Ack, Jette, a shi**y day indeed.
>
> Sounds perhaps like your other half is hurting about his Mum and trying to
> *possibly* rationalise/hide this by his comments? Sometimes people find
denial
> is the way they can cope - even though it can hurt the ones they love.
>
> Hang in there Jette
>
> gentle *hugs* helen s


it did NOT help that yesterday was the funeral of Rikki Fulton -
possibly Scotland's best comedian/comic actor (but largely
unknown outside Scotland - his humour was quite ..... specific
to the Scots sense of humour). Rikki was my favourite - but at
the funeral they chose as a song to honour him "Aye Fond Kiss".

That was the song my dad chose for Mum's funeral - I actually
had to run away from the tv into the kitchen.


--
Jette
"Work for Peace and remain Fiercely Loving" - Jim Byrnes
***@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
Frankenmel
2004-02-04 18:25:46 UTC
Permalink
>From: "Jette Goldie"

>
>
>
>"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" <***@aol.comcomcom> wrote in
>message news:***@mb-m25.aol.com...
>> Ack, Jette, a shi**y day indeed.
>>
>> Sounds perhaps like your other half is hurting about his Mum and trying to
>> *possibly* rationalise/hide this by his comments? Sometimes people find
>denial
>> is the way they can cope - even though it can hurt the ones they love.
>>
>> Hang in there Jette
>>
>> gentle *hugs* helen s
>
>
>it did NOT help that yesterday was the funeral of Rikki Fulton -
>possibly Scotland's best comedian/comic actor (but largely
>unknown outside Scotland - his humour was quite ..... specific
>to the Scots sense of humour). Rikki was my favourite - but at
>the funeral they chose as a song to honour him "Aye Fond Kiss".
>
>That was the song my dad chose for Mum's funeral - I actually
>had to run away from the tv into the kitchen.
>

Oh {{Jette}} I am so very sorry.




Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers
2004-02-04 19:53:35 UTC
Permalink
>That was the song my dad chose for Mum's funeral - I actually
>had to run away from the tv into the kitchen.

I can see why that would be emotional.

*hugs* helen s


--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove dependency on fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e**nd***$o$ts***i*$*$m**m$$o*n**s@$*$a$$o**l.c**$*$om$$
mixter
2004-02-03 23:09:58 UTC
Permalink
jette, i'm sorry that you're feeling blue. when i'm in a funk like that, i
always find if i have a really good long cry at home (alone) then i can
begin to come out of it. light a candle or two and take a nice hot bath
and just cry your eyes out.

it's difficult to understand why your husband is detached but i honestly
think it's a guy thing. they just don't see things the way that women do.

i hope you feel better. do something special for yourself. have a big hot
fudge sunday after your bath. play the stereo loud with your favorite
artist.

hugs,
mickey

"Jette Goldie" <***@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote in message
news:rqUTb.5639$***@news-text.cableinet.net...
> Spent 20 minutes in the loo this afternoon at work, having
> a wee cry to myself - then another 10 minutes applying
> make up so I didn't look like a woman who'd spent 20
> minutes crying in the loo.
>
> Sounds crazy, but I've been missing my mum who died
> 8 years ago. Sort of started last night when we were
> watching a travel show on BBC - one of those shows
> where they pick someone and give them the holiday of
> a lifetime. This time it was a young family - father and
> two little girls (aged about 4 and 8). The mother died
> a year or so ago. The grandparents had written to the
> BBC telling them about the family, so BBC organised
> a "fairy godmother" to take them (plus gran to help
> out) to Florida, where they went to every theme park
> going, the girls swam with dolphins, cuddled penguins,
> had breakfast with 4 princesses (I recognised Snow
> White and Cinderella but I'm afraid I'm not very good
> on Disney movies, the father got to experience a
> racing car on the track (driven by a pro) and the family
> even got to lead the afternoon parade at Disneyland.
> They had fun - but as I said to hubby "it doesn't make
> up for what they've lost" (the father had been interviewed
> on camera in tears talking about how much he missed his
> wife)
>
> And hubby floored me by saying "Oh, I think they've got
> something much better - they'd never have had a holiday
> like that if their mum was alive" and he actually BELIEVED
> it - that it was worth two little girls losing their mother and
> a man losing his beloved wife just so they could get a free
> holiday from the BBC!!
>
> Taking this comment along with his comment a few weeks
> ago about my dad "having a much better life now that mum
> is dead" it shows how *detached* he's become.
>
> (of course it can't help that whenever you talk to his mother
> you get the same conversation about how much pain she's
> in and how she hopes she hasn't got long to live)
>
>
> --
> "Just when you think
> the crying stops
> It all begins again
> You never stop the hurting
> the grieving and the pain"
>
> Jette
> ***@blueyonder.co.uk
>
>
FurPaw
2004-02-03 23:17:29 UTC
Permalink
mixter wrote:
> jette, i'm sorry that you're feeling blue. when i'm in a funk like that, i
> always find if i have a really good long cry at home (alone) then i can
> begin to come out of it. light a candle or two and take a nice hot bath
> and just cry your eyes out.
>
> it's difficult to understand why your husband is detached but i honestly
> think it's a guy thing. they just don't see things the way that women do.
>
> i hope you feel better. do something special for yourself. have a big hot
> fudge sunday after your bath. play the stereo loud with your favorite
> artist.
>
> hugs,
> mickey

Echoing mickey, and pondering your husband. He's on SSRI antidepressants,
isn't he? If so, I'm wondering if his reaction may come from a flattening
of affect (emotional response) that can be a side effect of some SSRIs, for
some people.

On those days when it feels like the only thing that's holding you together
is static cling, remember that there are lots of hugs for you here -
{{{{{{{Jette}}}}}}}

FurPaw

> "Jette Goldie" <***@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote in message
> news:rqUTb.5639$***@news-text.cableinet.net...
>
>>Spent 20 minutes in the loo this afternoon at work, having
>>a wee cry to myself - then another 10 minutes applying
>>make up so I didn't look like a woman who'd spent 20
>>minutes crying in the loo.

--
Brain cells come and brain cells go, but fat cells live forever.

To reply, unleash the dog.
Sue and Kevin Mullen
2004-02-04 02:44:58 UTC
Permalink
FurPaw wrote:
> mixter wrote:
>
>> jette, i'm sorry that you're feeling blue. when i'm in a funk like
>> that, i
>> always find if i have a really good long cry at home (alone) then i can
>> begin to come out of it. light a candle or two and take a nice hot bath
>> and just cry your eyes out.
>>
>> it's difficult to understand why your husband is detached but i honestly
>> think it's a guy thing. they just don't see things the way that women
>> do.
>>
>> i hope you feel better. do something special for yourself. have a
>> big hot
>> fudge sunday after your bath. play the stereo loud with your favorite
>> artist.
>>
>> hugs,
>> mickey
>
>
> Echoing mickey, and pondering your husband. He's on SSRI
> antidepressants, isn't he? If so, I'm wondering if his reaction may
> come from a flattening of affect (emotional response) that can be a side
> effect of some SSRIs, for some people.
>
> On those days when it feels like the only thing that's holding you
> together is static cling, remember that there are lots of hugs for you
> here - {{{{{{{Jette}}}}}}}

I second what Mickey and FurPaw said.

((((((((((hugs))))))))))

sue
Jette Goldie
2004-02-04 18:17:50 UTC
Permalink
"FurPaw" <***@comcast.net> wrote
> Echoing mickey, and pondering your husband. He's on SSRI antidepressants,
> isn't he? If so, I'm wondering if his reaction may come from a flattening
> of affect (emotional response) that can be a side effect of some SSRIs,
for
> some people.
>

No, he took himself off them, because he kept getting told
he shouldn't drink with them - and "they weren't working
anyway" (they *had* been working, but I think the dose
needed adjusting after a couple of months, so he gave up)


--
Jette
"Work for Peace and remain Fiercely Loving" - Jim Byrnes
***@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
Shirley
2004-02-03 23:43:19 UTC
Permalink
"Jette Goldie" <***@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote in message
news:rqUTb.5639$***@news-text.cableinet.net...
> Spent 20 minutes in the loo this afternoon at work, having
> a wee cry to myself - then another 10 minutes applying
> make up so I didn't look like a woman who'd spent 20
> minutes crying in the loo.

{{{{Jette}}}}}, you need one of those cold gel pack thingies for your
eyes.
>
> Sounds crazy, but I've been missing my mum who died
> 8 years ago. Sort of started last night when we were
> watching a travel show on BBC - one of those shows
> where they pick someone and give them the holiday of
> a lifetime. This time it was a young family - father and
> two little girls (aged about 4 and 8). The mother died
> a year or so ago. The grandparents had written to the
> BBC telling them about the family, so BBC organised
> a "fairy godmother" to take them (plus gran to help
> out) to Florida, where they went to every theme park
> going, the girls swam with dolphins, cuddled penguins,
> had breakfast with 4 princesses (I recognised Snow
> White and Cinderella but I'm afraid I'm not very good
> on Disney movies, the father got to experience a
> racing car on the track (driven by a pro) and the family
> even got to lead the afternoon parade at Disneyland.
> They had fun - but as I said to hubby "it doesn't make
> up for what they've lost" (the father had been interviewed
> on camera in tears talking about how much he missed his
> wife)

More {{{{{Jette}}}}}

>
> And hubby floored me by saying "Oh, I think they've got
> something much better - they'd never have had a holiday
> like that if their mum was alive" and he actually BELIEVED
> it - that it was worth two little girls losing their mother and
> a man losing his beloved wife just so they could get a free
> holiday from the BBC!!

Maybe that's more about his relationship with his mum.

>
> Taking this comment along with his comment a few weeks
> ago about my dad "having a much better life now that mum
> is dead" it shows how *detached* he's become.

Again I'm wondering if he feels that he and his dad would have been
better off without his mum.

--
Shirley
see my cats at
http://communities.msn.co.uk/Friendsfamilyandfelines2
http://uk.msnusers.com/friendsfamilyandfelines3

>
> (of course it can't help that whenever you talk to his mother
> you get the same conversation about how much pain she's
> in and how she hopes she hasn't got long to live)
>
>
> --
> "Just when you think
> the crying stops
> It all begins again
> You never stop the hurting
> the grieving and the pain"
>
> Jette
> ***@blueyonder.co.uk
>
>
ajiko
2004-02-04 16:28:51 UTC
Permalink
"Shirley" <***@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bvpbmn$v68fm$***@ID-145712.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Jette Goldie" <***@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote in message
> news:rqUTb.5639$***@news-text.cableinet.net...
> > Spent 20 minutes in the loo this afternoon at work, having
> > a wee cry to myself - then another 10 minutes applying
> > make up so I didn't look like a woman who'd spent 20
> > minutes crying in the loo.
>
> {{{{Jette}}}}}, you need one of those cold gel pack thingies for your
> eyes.
> >
> > Sounds crazy, but I've been missing my mum who died
> > 8 years ago. Sort of started last night when we were
> > watching a travel show on BBC - one of those shows
> > where they pick someone and give them the holiday of
> > a lifetime. This time it was a young family - father and
> > two little girls (aged about 4 and 8). The mother died
> > a year or so ago. The grandparents had written to the
> > BBC telling them about the family, so BBC organised
> > a "fairy godmother" to take them (plus gran to help
> > out) to Florida, where they went to every theme park
> > going, the girls swam with dolphins, cuddled penguins,
> > had breakfast with 4 princesses (I recognised Snow
> > White and Cinderella but I'm afraid I'm not very good
> > on Disney movies, the father got to experience a
> > racing car on the track (driven by a pro) and the family
> > even got to lead the afternoon parade at Disneyland.
> > They had fun - but as I said to hubby "it doesn't make
> > up for what they've lost" (the father had been interviewed
> > on camera in tears talking about how much he missed his
> > wife)
>
> More {{{{{Jette}}}}}
>
> >
> > And hubby floored me by saying "Oh, I think they've got
> > something much better - they'd never have had a holiday
> > like that if their mum was alive" and he actually BELIEVED
> > it - that it was worth two little girls losing their mother and
> > a man losing his beloved wife just so they could get a free
> > holiday from the BBC!!
>
> Maybe that's more about his relationship with his mum.
>
> >
> > Taking this comment along with his comment a few weeks
> > ago about my dad "having a much better life now that mum
> > is dead" it shows how *detached* he's become.
>
> Again I'm wondering if he feels that he and his dad would have been
> better off without his mum.
>

Then, it could be his own stage of life reflection of his own mortality... I
find myself being too much there (dwelling on death) these days.

Joanne
Frankenmel
2004-02-04 18:20:30 UTC
Permalink
>From: "ajiko"

>I
>find myself being too much there (dwelling on death) these days.

I don't worry about my own demise. I do think a lot about DH's though.

As Chak would say,some things you can't control,so you must not dwell on them
(or something to that effect).




Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
Marilee
2004-02-04 18:41:13 UTC
Permalink
"ajiko" <***@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:759Ub.12554$***@typhoon.sonic.net...
>
> "Shirley" <***@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:bvpbmn$v68fm$***@ID-145712.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > "Jette Goldie" <***@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote in message
> > news:rqUTb.5639$***@news-text.cableinet.net...
> > > Spent 20 minutes in the loo this afternoon at work, having
> > > a wee cry to myself - then another 10 minutes applying
> > > make up so I didn't look like a woman who'd spent 20
> > > minutes crying in the loo.
> >
> > {{{{Jette}}}}}, you need one of those cold gel pack thingies for your
> > eyes.
> > >
> > > Sounds crazy, but I've been missing my mum who died
> > > 8 years ago. Sort of started last night when we were
> > > watching a travel show on BBC - one of those shows
> > > where they pick someone and give them the holiday of
> > > a lifetime. This time it was a young family - father and
> > > two little girls (aged about 4 and 8). The mother died
> > > a year or so ago. The grandparents had written to the
> > > BBC telling them about the family, so BBC organised
> > > a "fairy godmother" to take them (plus gran to help
> > > out) to Florida, where they went to every theme park
> > > going, the girls swam with dolphins, cuddled penguins,
> > > had breakfast with 4 princesses (I recognised Snow
> > > White and Cinderella but I'm afraid I'm not very good
> > > on Disney movies, the father got to experience a
> > > racing car on the track (driven by a pro) and the family
> > > even got to lead the afternoon parade at Disneyland.
> > > They had fun - but as I said to hubby "it doesn't make
> > > up for what they've lost" (the father had been interviewed
> > > on camera in tears talking about how much he missed his
> > > wife)
> >
> > More {{{{{Jette}}}}}
> >
> > >
> > > And hubby floored me by saying "Oh, I think they've got
> > > something much better - they'd never have had a holiday
> > > like that if their mum was alive" and he actually BELIEVED
> > > it - that it was worth two little girls losing their mother and
> > > a man losing his beloved wife just so they could get a free
> > > holiday from the BBC!!
> >
> > Maybe that's more about his relationship with his mum.
> >
> > >
> > > Taking this comment along with his comment a few weeks
> > > ago about my dad "having a much better life now that mum
> > > is dead" it shows how *detached* he's become.
> >
> > Again I'm wondering if he feels that he and his dad would have been
> > better off without his mum.
> >
>
> Then, it could be his own stage of life reflection of his own mortality...
I
> find myself being too much there (dwelling on death) these days.

Yeah, once one reaches 50 (but I think you're not there, yet, right?) I
believe it's pretty normal to have some days of pondering just how many
years you actually have left....

Marilee


>
> Joanne
>
>
Jette Goldie
2004-02-04 19:15:46 UTC
Permalink
"Marilee" <***@hotmail.com> wrote

> Yeah, once one reaches 50 (but I think you're not there, yet, right?) I
> believe it's pretty normal to have some days of pondering just how many
> years you actually have left....

Actually he just turned 45 two weeks ago - this seemed to be
a big freak-out point for him. Maybe 50 won't seem so bad?


--
Jette
"Work for Peace and remain Fiercely Loving" - Jim Byrnes
***@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
Keera Ann Fox
2004-02-04 22:20:20 UTC
Permalink
Jette Goldie <***@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote:

> "Marilee" <***@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > Yeah, once one reaches 50 (but I think you're not there, yet, right?) I
> > believe it's pretty normal to have some days of pondering just how many
> > years you actually have left....
>
> Actually he just turned 45 two weeks ago - this seemed to be
> a big freak-out point for him.

I'm into astrology and I know of several friends who freaked when they
turned 45. Turns out that's when the planet Saturn by transit hits a
halfway point in one's birthchart, putting on a lot of pressure. Not
everyone handles this gracefully. Some panic.

Anyway, here's the only "motto" I've ever heard that I really like: This
Too Shall Pass. It certainly does apply to Saturn transits.

{{{HUG}}}

--
****** Keera in Norway ******
* Think big. Shrink to fit. *
http://home.online.no/~kafox/
Chakolate
2004-02-05 01:46:44 UTC
Permalink
***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) wrote in
news:1g8nn9w.1qus9nk1a8998gN%***@online.no:

> I'm into astrology and I know of several friends who freaked when they
> turned 45. Turns out that's when the planet Saturn by transit hits a
> halfway point in one's birthchart, putting on a lot of pressure. Not
> everyone handles this gracefully. Some panic.
>

My sister had a similar freakout on her 45th birthday. Someone told her,
jeez, you're halfway to 90! and she *really* hated that. I didn't mind a
bit.

Chakolate

--
Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.
--Mahatma Gandhi
Frankenmel
2004-02-05 02:07:16 UTC
Permalink
>From: Chakolate

>
>
>***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) wrote in
>news:1g8nn9w.1qus9nk1a8998gN%***@online.no:
>
>> I'm into astrology and I know of several friends who freaked when they
>> turned 45. Turns out that's when the planet Saturn by transit hits a
>> halfway point in one's birthchart, putting on a lot of pressure. Not
>> everyone handles this gracefully. Some panic.
>>
>
>My sister had a similar freakout on her 45th birthday. Someone told her,
>jeez, you're halfway to 90! and she *really* hated that. I didn't mind a
>bit.

My friends think it's a bit odd,but I'm looking forward to becoming 60 in a
couple years.



Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
Keera Ann Fox
2004-02-05 08:46:48 UTC
Permalink
Frankenmel <***@aol.comDONT> wrote:

> >From: Chakolate
>
> >
> >
> >***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) wrote in
> >news:1g8nn9w.1qus9nk1a8998gN%***@online.no:
> >
> >> I'm into astrology and I know of several friends who freaked when they
> >> turned 45. Turns out that's when the planet Saturn by transit hits a
> >> halfway point in one's birthchart, putting on a lot of pressure. Not
> >> everyone handles this gracefully. Some panic.
> >>
> >
> >My sister had a similar freakout on her 45th birthday. Someone told her,
> >jeez, you're halfway to 90! and she *really* hated that. I didn't mind a
> >bit.
>
> My friends think it's a bit odd,but I'm looking forward to becoming 60 in a
> couple years.

There are a couple of milestones for people, and it seems to me that 40,
45 and 50 are the most common. Some do react to 30 or 60, but most react
to the "halfway point", however it's defined for them.

--
****** Keera in Norway ******
* Think big. Shrink to fit. *
http://home.online.no/~kafox/
Frankenmel
2004-02-05 16:05:44 UTC
Permalink
>From: k.a.fox

>
>
>Frankenmel <***@aol.comDONT> wrote:
>
>> >From: Chakolate
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) wrote in
>> >news:1g8nn9w.1qus9nk1a8998gN%***@online.no:
>> >
>> >> I'm into astrology and I know of several friends who freaked when they
>> >> turned 45. Turns out that's when the planet Saturn by transit hits a
>> >> halfway point in one's birthchart, putting on a lot of pressure. Not
>> >> everyone handles this gracefully. Some panic.
>> >>
>> >
>> >My sister had a similar freakout on her 45th birthday. Someone told her,
>> >jeez, you're halfway to 90! and she *really* hated that. I didn't mind a
>> >bit.
>>
>> My friends think it's a bit odd,but I'm looking forward to becoming 60 in a
>> couple years.
>
>There are a couple of milestones for people, and it seems to me that 40,
>45 and 50 are the most common. Some do react to 30 or 60, but most react
>to the "halfway point", however it's defined for them.

30 and 50 were hard for me. 30 because I loved being in my 20s. 50 because the
half century,and my periods stopped...some regret I never had children...a big
milestone,that 50.


(sneaky postscript..hee hee) whereas today,I'm only becoming 58!







Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
Chakolate
2004-02-05 17:57:08 UTC
Permalink
***@aol.comDONT (Frankenmel) wrote in
news:***@mb-m17.aol.com:

> 30 and 50 were hard for me. 30 because I loved being in my 20s. 50
> because the half century,and my periods stopped...some regret I never
> had children...a big milestone,that 50.

I think 50 would have been a milestone if I hadn't been in school. It's
hard to worry about your life speeding by when you're late for class. :-)


> (sneaky postscript..hee hee) whereas today,I'm only becoming 58!


Woohoo! A great big Happy to you, Sharon.

Chakolate



--
Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.
--Mahatma Gandhi
Frankenmel
2004-02-05 18:13:44 UTC
Permalink
>From: Chakolate

>
>
>***@aol.comDONT (Frankenmel) wrote in
>news:***@mb-m17.aol.com:
>
>> 30 and 50 were hard for me. 30 because I loved being in my 20s. 50
>> because the half century,and my periods stopped...some regret I never
>> had children...a big milestone,that 50.
>
>I think 50 would have been a milestone if I hadn't been in school. It's
>hard to worry about your life speeding by when you're late for class. :-)
>
>
>> (sneaky postscript..hee hee) whereas today,I'm only becoming 58!
>
>
>Woohoo! A great big Happy to you, Sharon.

Thanks! I treated myself to a new Wrebbit jigsaw CD,and we're going out to eat
later.




Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
Chakolate
2004-02-05 19:13:47 UTC
Permalink
***@aol.comDONT (Frankenmel) wrote in
news:***@mb-m28.aol.com:

> Thanks! I treated myself to a new Wrebbit jigsaw CD,and we're going
> out to eat later.
>

If you like computer jigsaw puzzles, I've got a good one you can add your
own pics to. Let me know if you want the URL.

Chak

--
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from
him.
--Galileo Galilei
Frankenmel
2004-02-05 19:26:13 UTC
Permalink
>From: Chakolate

>
>
>***@aol.comDONT (Frankenmel) wrote in
>news:***@mb-m28.aol.com:
>
>> Thanks! I treated myself to a new Wrebbit jigsaw CD,and we're going
>> out to eat later.
>>
>
>If you like computer jigsaw puzzles, I've got a good one you can add your
>own pics to. Let me know if you want the URL.

Thanks!

Check this out...this is what I ordered.

http://store.yahoo.com/thetoyhunt/wrebcdkin.html

I also have the Notre Dame Cathedral (fabulous!) and the Bavarian Castle (lots
of gray pieces..very difficult).

These are amazing puzzles. Very satisfying "click" when the pieces fit,and a
"trrrring" when the pieces are ready to go on the construction site. Then when
the structure is complete,you can go inside and solve a mystery,but I've never
been good at that. Pat K was very good at them.









Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
Chakolate
2004-02-05 20:46:40 UTC
Permalink
***@aol.comDONT (Frankenmel) wrote in
news:***@mb-m25.aol.com:

> These are amazing puzzles. Very satisfying "click" when the pieces
> fit,and a "trrrring" when the pieces are ready to go on the
> construction site. Then when the structure is complete,you can go
> inside and solve a mystery,but I've never been good at that. Pat K was
> very good at them.
>

Pretty cool. I barely have time for the 2-D type puzzles, but someday...

Chakolate

--
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from
him.
--Galileo Galilei
CG
2004-02-05 19:00:46 UTC
Permalink
On 5 Feb 2004 17:57:08 GMT, Chakolate wrote:

>***@aol.comDONT (Frankenmel) wrote in
>news:***@mb-m17.aol.com:
>
>> 30 and 50 were hard for me. 30 because I loved being in my 20s. 50
>> because the half century,and my periods stopped...some regret I never
>> had children...a big milestone,that 50.
>
>I think 50 would have been a milestone if I hadn't been in school. It's
>hard to worry about your life speeding by when you're late for class. :-)
>
>
>> (sneaky postscript..hee hee) whereas today,I'm only becoming 58!
>
>
>Woohoo! A great big Happy to you, Sharon.
>
>Chakolate

Whoa! I missed that postscript!

<hums an A>

Happy Birthday to you
May your worries be few
May your business be boom-ing
And your van run like new.

:-)

Cathering
A woman who loves the rhyming dictionary.


-- "Everything I've ever let go of has claw marks on it." - Anne Lamott

......You may reply to email in header but be sure to delete the word SPAMFREE from the address.
Frankenmel
2004-02-05 19:21:54 UTC
Permalink
>From: CG

>
>
>On 5 Feb 2004 17:57:08 GMT, Chakolate wrote:
>
>>***@aol.comDONT (Frankenmel) wrote in
>>news:***@mb-m17.aol.com:
>>
>>> 30 and 50 were hard for me. 30 because I loved being in my 20s. 50
>>> because the half century,and my periods stopped...some regret I never
>>> had children...a big milestone,that 50.
>>
>>I think 50 would have been a milestone if I hadn't been in school. It's
>>hard to worry about your life speeding by when you're late for class. :-)
>>
>>
>>> (sneaky postscript..hee hee) whereas today,I'm only becoming 58!
>>
>>
>>Woohoo! A great big Happy to you, Sharon.
>>
>>Chakolate
>
>Whoa! I missed that postscript!
>
><hums an A>
>
>Happy Birthday to you
>May your worries be few
>May your business be boom-ing
>And your van run like new.
>
>:-)

LOL...thanks,pal ! My best guy friend from high school "sang" me Happy
Birthday in an email today too.





Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers
2004-02-06 10:05:17 UTC
Permalink
>LOL...thanks,pal ! My best guy friend from high school "sang" me Happy
>Birthday in an email today too.

Happy Birthday. Or, as the cats would say, "Happy Purrday" ;-)

Cheers, helen s


--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove dependency on fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e**nd***$o$ts***i*$*$m**m$$o*n**s@$*$a$$o**l.c**$*$om$$
Frankenmel
2004-02-06 15:53:05 UTC
Permalink
>From:

>wafflycathcs

>Happy Birthday. Or, as the cats would say, "Happy Purrday" ;-)

Hee hee..thanks,Helen!





Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
Sue and Kevin Mullen
2004-02-05 19:36:48 UTC
Permalink
Frankenmel wrote:
>>From: k.a.fox
>
>
>>
>>Frankenmel <***@aol.comDONT> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>From: Chakolate
>>>
>>>>
>>>>***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) wrote in
>>>>news:1g8nn9w.1qus9nk1a8998gN%***@online.no:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'm into astrology and I know of several friends who freaked when they
>>>>>turned 45. Turns out that's when the planet Saturn by transit hits a
>>>>>halfway point in one's birthchart, putting on a lot of pressure. Not
>>>>>everyone handles this gracefully. Some panic.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>My sister had a similar freakout on her 45th birthday. Someone told her,
>>>>jeez, you're halfway to 90! and she *really* hated that. I didn't mind a
>>>>bit.
>>>
>>>My friends think it's a bit odd,but I'm looking forward to becoming 60 in a
>>>couple years.
>>
>>There are a couple of milestones for people, and it seems to me that 40,
>>45 and 50 are the most common. Some do react to 30 or 60, but most react
>>to the "halfway point", however it's defined for them.
>
>
> 30 and 50 were hard for me. 30 because I loved being in my 20s. 50 because the
> half century,and my periods stopped...some regret I never had children...a big
> milestone,that 50.


> (sneaky postscript..hee hee) whereas today,I'm only becoming 58!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!!!

sue
Frankenmel
2004-02-05 23:11:35 UTC
Permalink
>From: Sue and Kevin Mullen

>HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!!!

Thenn kew Sue!











Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
FurPaw
2004-02-05 21:06:17 UTC
Permalink
Frankenmel wrote:

> (sneaky postscript..hee hee) whereas today,I'm only becoming 58!

Whoa! I hope it's a happy day for you!

FurPaw

--
Brain cells come and brain cells go, but fat cells live forever.

To reply, unleash the dog.
Frankenmel
2004-02-05 23:12:11 UTC
Permalink
>From: FurPaw

>
>Frankenmel wrote:
>
>> (sneaky postscript..hee hee) whereas today,I'm only becoming 58!
>
>Whoa! I hope it's a happy day for you!

Thanks! Just got back from sirloin tips!




Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
Keera Ann Fox
2004-02-05 21:33:08 UTC
Permalink
Frankenmel <***@aol.comDONT> wrote:

> (sneaky postscript..hee hee) whereas today,I'm only becoming 58!

Which somebody else had to catch because I know I didn't.

Happy birthday, Sharon!

--
****** Keera in Norway ******
* Think big. Shrink to fit. *
http://home.online.no/~kafox/
Frankenmel
2004-02-05 23:26:31 UTC
Permalink
>From

>Keera

>Happy birthday, Sharon!

Thanks!






Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
Magda
2004-02-05 22:53:38 UTC
Permalink
On 05 Feb 2004 16:05:44 GMT, in alt.support.menopause, ***@aol.comDONT (Frankenmel)
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :


... (sneaky postscript..hee hee) whereas today,I'm only becoming 58!

(La cachottière ! :-))

Many happy returns !!
Frankenmel
2004-02-05 23:14:59 UTC
Permalink
>From: Magda

>
>
>On 05 Feb 2004 16:05:44 GMT, in alt.support.menopause, ***@aol.comDONT
>(Frankenmel)
>arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
>
>
> ... (sneaky postscript..hee hee) whereas today,I'm only becoming 58!
>
>(La cachottière ! :-))
>
>Many happy returns !!

Remercie mon bonbon ( my French is rusty)




Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
Cathy Friedmann
2004-02-05 23:22:48 UTC
Permalink
"Frankenmel" <***@aol.comDONT> wrote in message
news:***@mb-m02.aol.com...
> >From: Magda
>
> >
> >
> >On 05 Feb 2004 16:05:44 GMT, in alt.support.menopause,
***@aol.comDONT
> >(Frankenmel)
> >arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
> >
> >
> > ... (sneaky postscript..hee hee) whereas today,I'm only becoming 58!
> >
> >(La cachottière ! :-))
> >
> >Many happy returns !!
>
> Remercie mon bonbon ( my French is rusty)

Bonne fête à toi! (moi aussi!)

Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon
Frankenmel
2004-02-05 23:32:56 UTC
Permalink
>From: "Cathy Friedmann"

>Bonne fête à toi! (moi aussi!)

beaucoup de mercis mon ami



Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
Magda
2004-02-05 23:48:07 UTC
Permalink
On 05 Feb 2004 23:14:59 GMT, in alt.support.menopause, ***@aol.comDONT (Frankenmel)
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... >From: Magda
... >
... >
... >On 05 Feb 2004 16:05:44 GMT, in alt.support.menopause, ***@aol.comDONT
... >(Frankenmel)
... >arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
... >
... >
... > ... (sneaky postscript..hee hee) whereas today,I'm only becoming 58!
... >
... >(La cachottière ! :-))
... >
... >Many happy returns !!
...
... Remercie mon bonbon ( my French is rusty)

It's ok, my English needs polishing too. :-)
Chakolate
2004-02-06 00:50:14 UTC
Permalink
Magda <***@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:***@4ax.com:

> On 05 Feb 2004 23:14:59 GMT, in alt.support.menopause,
> ***@aol.comDONT (Frankenmel) arranged some electrons, so they
> looked like this :

> ...
> ... Remercie mon bonbon ( my French is rusty)
>
> It's ok, my English needs polishing too. :-)


Kindly do not Polish your French. The French don't like it.

Chakolate


--
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from
him.
--Galileo Galilei
Frankenmel
2004-02-06 00:53:52 UTC
Permalink
>From: Chakolate

>
>
>Magda <***@hotmail.com> wrote in
>news:***@4ax.com:
>
>> On 05 Feb 2004 23:14:59 GMT, in alt.support.menopause,
>> ***@aol.comDONT (Frankenmel) arranged some electrons, so they
>> looked like this :
>
>> ...
>> ... Remercie mon bonbon ( my French is rusty)
>>
>> It's ok, my English needs polishing too. :-)
>
>
>Kindly do not Polish your French. The French don't like it.

Yeah,they don't take kindly to having their language messed with ;-Þ




Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
Keera Ann Fox
2004-02-06 08:58:43 UTC
Permalink
Chakolate <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Magda <***@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:***@4ax.com:
>
> > On 05 Feb 2004 23:14:59 GMT, in alt.support.menopause,
> > ***@aol.comDONT (Frankenmel) arranged some electrons, so they
> > looked like this :
>
> > ...
> > ... Remercie mon bonbon ( my French is rusty)
> >
> > It's ok, my English needs polishing too. :-)
>
>
> Kindly do not Polish your French. The French don't like it.

Hehehe...

--
****** Keera in Norway ******
* Think big. Shrink to fit. *
http://home.online.no/~kafox/
Magda
2004-02-06 10:02:02 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:58:43 +0100, in alt.support.menopause, ***@online.no (Keera Ann
Fox) arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... Chakolate <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
...
... > Magda <***@hotmail.com> wrote in
... > news:***@4ax.com:
... >
... > > On 05 Feb 2004 23:14:59 GMT, in alt.support.menopause,
... > > ***@aol.comDONT (Frankenmel) arranged some electrons, so they
... > > looked like this :
... >
... > > ...
... > > ... Remercie mon bonbon ( my French is rusty)
... > >
... > > It's ok, my English needs polishing too. :-)
... >
... >
... > Kindly do not Polish your French. The French don't like it.
...
... Hehehe...

No comment...
gs
2004-02-06 00:56:41 UTC
Permalink
Happy Birthday Sharon!

Gwen
Shirley
2004-02-05 23:43:25 UTC
Permalink
~:~:~:~:~:~:~ Happy Birthday Sharon ~:~:~:~:~:~:~

--
Shirley
see my cats at
http://communities.msn.co.uk/Friendsfamilyandfelines2
http://uk.msnusers.com/friendsfamilyandfelines3
Frankenmel
2004-02-05 23:53:31 UTC
Permalink
>From: "Shirley"

>~:~:~:~:~:~:~ Happy Birthday Sharon ~:~:~:~:~:~:~

Very pretty!!! Thanks!




Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
mixter
2004-02-06 02:02:57 UTC
Permalink
>
> 30 and 50 were hard for me. 30 because I loved being in my 20s. 50 because
the
> half century,and my periods stopped...some regret I never had children...a
big
> milestone,that 50.
>
>
> (sneaky postscript..hee hee) whereas today,I'm only becoming 58!

> Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
> Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.

so it's happy birthday. i hope you had a wonderful birthday.

mickey
Frankenmel
2004-02-06 02:23:22 UTC
Permalink
>From: "mixter"

>so it's happy birthday. i hope you had a wonderful birthday.
>

Thanks. Yeah,it was fine.








Sharon........Don't think of it as getting hot flashes.
Think of it as your inner child playing with matches.
Chris Malcolm
2004-02-05 09:22:47 UTC
Permalink
***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) writes:

>Jette Goldie <***@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote:

>> "Marilee" <***@hotmail.com> wrote

>> > Yeah, once one reaches 50 (but I think you're not there, yet, right?) I
>> > believe it's pretty normal to have some days of pondering just how many
>> > years you actually have left....

>> Actually he just turned 45 two weeks ago - this seemed to be
>> a big freak-out point for him.

>I'm into astrology and I know of several friends who freaked when they
>turned 45. Turns out that's when the planet Saturn by transit hits a
>halfway point in one's birthchart, putting on a lot of pressure. Not
>everyone handles this gracefully. Some panic.

This puzzles me. If we forget for a moment the time shifts caused by
Saturn's apparent scything through the sky then Saturn's 30 year orbit
gives Saturn-Saturn transitting conjunctions at 30 and 60 and
oppositions at 15 and 45.

Why would a Saturn opposition be nastier than a conjunction? Why would
either be nastier than a Saturn transit of natal Sun? Or indeed
nastier than Uranus's first oppositional self-transit at (ignoring the
scything again) 42?

Astrologically speaking, I don't see reasons why 45 should be more
difficult than some other times.
--
Chris Malcolm ***@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
Keera Ann Fox
2004-02-05 13:02:12 UTC
Permalink
Chris Malcolm <***@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

> ***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) writes:
>
> >Jette Goldie <***@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote:
>
> >> Actually he just turned 45 two weeks ago - this seemed to be
> >> a big freak-out point for him.
>
> >I'm into astrology and I know of several friends who freaked when they
> >turned 45. Turns out that's when the planet Saturn by transit hits a
> >halfway point in one's birthchart, putting on a lot of pressure. Not
> >everyone handles this gracefully. Some panic.
>
> This puzzles me. If we forget for a moment the time shifts caused by
> Saturn's apparent scything through the sky then Saturn's 30 year orbit
> gives Saturn-Saturn transitting conjunctions at 30 and 60 and
> oppositions at 15 and 45.

-snip-

> Astrologically speaking, I don't see reasons why 45 should be more
> difficult than some other times.

In general, all Saturn "hard" transits (the ones you mention above), are
significant. How significant (and painful) depends on your own birth
chart, personality and circumstances.

The significance of age 45 is that people then experience transitting
Saturn opposing their birth Saturn -- something that hasn't happened
since they were 15. Since Saturn is the planet of karma and dharma,
fears, inner strength, and aging, and is also associated with the
disciplinary parent, it can dredge up a lot of past stuff, depending on
the person. Not everyone will feel this or act on it.

But since Jette's husband is that age, and I'm into astrology, it occurs
to me that he's going through a difficult time with Saturn. Jette and
her husband may find that an astrologer can help put things into
perspective, by helping her husband see what his issues are and be more
constructive about them, and by giving Jette an idea of his process and
her role in it.

--
****** Keera in Norway ******
* Think big. Shrink to fit. *
http://home.online.no/~kafox/
Jette Goldie
2004-02-05 17:25:56 UTC
Permalink
"Keera Ann Fox" <***@online.no> wrote
>
> In general, all Saturn "hard" transits (the ones you mention above), are
> significant. How significant (and painful) depends on your own birth
> chart, personality and circumstances.
>
> The significance of age 45 is that people then experience transitting
> Saturn opposing their birth Saturn -- something that hasn't happened
> since they were 15. Since Saturn is the planet of karma and dharma,
> fears, inner strength, and aging, and is also associated with the
> disciplinary parent, it can dredge up a lot of past stuff, depending on
> the person. Not everyone will feel this or act on it.
>
> But since Jette's husband is that age, and I'm into astrology, it occurs
> to me that he's going through a difficult time with Saturn. Jette and
> her husband may find that an astrologer can help put things into
> perspective, by helping her husband see what his issues are and be more
> constructive about them, and by giving Jette an idea of his process and
> her role in it.


Thanks, Keera - I used to do natal charts myself and was
quite good at interpreting them with regard to personality
(actually hubby thought I was cheating - he gave me several
charts to do, without names, and found the results so
uncannily accurate he thought I'd worked out who they actually
were - but since at least two of them were people *I* didn't
know) but I've never been good with using astrology for
other things - but I *am* good with Tarot.

Actually, I can see that what you say makes sense in this
case.


--
Jette
"Work for Peace and remain Fiercely Loving" - Jim Byrnes
***@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
Keera Ann Fox
2004-02-05 18:38:58 UTC
Permalink
Jette Goldie <***@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote:

> "Keera Ann Fox" <***@online.no> wrote
> >
> > But since Jette's husband is that age, and I'm into astrology, it occurs
> > to me that he's going through a difficult time with Saturn. Jette and
> > her husband may find that an astrologer can help put things into
> > perspective, by helping her husband see what his issues are and be more
> > constructive about them, and by giving Jette an idea of his process and
> > her role in it.
>
> Thanks, Keera - I used to do natal charts myself and was
> quite good at interpreting them with regard to personality
> (actually hubby thought I was cheating - he gave me several
> charts to do, without names, and found the results so
> uncannily accurate he thought I'd worked out who they actually
> were - but since at least two of them were people *I* didn't
> know) but I've never been good with using astrology for
> other things -

You certainly sound like you were good at natal astrology!

> but I *am* good with Tarot.

I never got that symbol language, in spite of owning a couple of decks
and a half dozen books.

> Actually, I can see that what you say makes sense in this
> case.

In case you don't have the tools anymore, check out
http://www.astro.com/ for chart-making, including comparison charts to
see transits. And in the menubar to the very left on the main page, you
can get annual ephemerides in PDF.

And if you want to e-mail me and discuss the transits, my e-mail addy
here works.

--
****** Keera in Norway ******
* Think big. Shrink to fit. *
http://home.online.no/~kafox/
Chris Malcolm
2004-02-05 20:22:01 UTC
Permalink
***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) writes:

>Jette Goldie <***@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote:

>> but I *am* good with Tarot.

>I never got that symbol language, in spite of owning a couple of decks
>and a half dozen books.

Try Crowley's pack -- explicit astrological symbolism. And also rather
better art than most!

--
Chris Malcolm ***@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
Keera Ann Fox
2004-02-05 21:33:08 UTC
Permalink
Chris Malcolm <***@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

> ***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) writes:
>
> >Jette Goldie <***@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote:
>
> >> but I *am* good with Tarot.
>
> >I never got that symbol language, in spite of owning a couple of decks
> >and a half dozen books.
>
> Try Crowley's pack -- explicit astrological symbolism. And also rather
> better art than most!

I did once check out his deck but it didn't "speak" to me.

--
****** Keera in Norway ******
* Think big. Shrink to fit. *
http://home.online.no/~kafox/
Chris Malcolm
2004-02-08 13:47:03 UTC
Permalink
***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) writes:

>Chris Malcolm <***@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

>> ***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) writes:

>> >Jette Goldie <***@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote:

>> >> Actually he just turned 45 two weeks ago - this seemed to be
>> >> a big freak-out point for him.

>> >I'm into astrology and I know of several friends who freaked when they
>> >turned 45. Turns out that's when the planet Saturn by transit hits a
>> >halfway point in one's birthchart, putting on a lot of pressure. Not
>> >everyone handles this gracefully. Some panic.

>> This puzzles me. If we forget for a moment the time shifts caused by
>> Saturn's apparent scything through the sky then Saturn's 30 year orbit
>> gives Saturn-Saturn transitting conjunctions at 30 and 60 and
>> oppositions at 15 and 45.

>> Astrologically speaking, I don't see reasons why 45 should be more
>> difficult than some other times.

>In general, all Saturn "hard" transits (the ones you mention above), are
>significant. How significant (and painful) depends on your own birth
>chart, personality and circumstances.

>The significance of age 45 is that people then experience transitting
>Saturn opposing their birth Saturn -- something that hasn't happened
>since they were 15. Since Saturn is the planet of karma and dharma,
>fears, inner strength, and aging, and is also associated with the
>disciplinary parent, it can dredge up a lot of past stuff, depending on
>the person. Not everyone will feel this or act on it.

What I was doubting was the exactitude of 45. Saturn scythes through
the sky in a series of back and forth swoops. Depending on whether
one's natal Saturn was on the retrograde or progressive end of a
swoop, this average 45 year transiting aspect could be 44 or 46,
perhaps 43 or 47, could it not? And depending on how lucky one was in
the timing of one's birth, one might, over the course of a year or
two, get one, two, or three distinct transits of this kind.

It would be a pretty unusual co-incidence if this Saturn transit
happened to coincide with with the solar return, i.e., one's actual
birthday, would it not?

--
Chris Malcolm ***@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
Keera Ann Fox
2004-02-08 15:47:12 UTC
Permalink
Chris Malcolm <***@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

> ***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) writes:
>
> >The significance of age 45 is that people then experience transitting
> >Saturn opposing their birth Saturn -- something that hasn't happened
> >since they were 15. Since Saturn is the planet of karma and dharma,
> >fears, inner strength, and aging, and is also associated with the
> >disciplinary parent, it can dredge up a lot of past stuff, depending on
> >the person. Not everyone will feel this or act on it.
>
> What I was doubting was the exactitude of 45. Saturn scythes through
> the sky in a series of back and forth swoops. Depending on whether
> one's natal Saturn was on the retrograde or progressive end of a
> swoop, this average 45 year transiting aspect could be 44 or 46,
> perhaps 43 or 47, could it not?

Yes, also depending on whether Saturn was going through a sign of short
of long ascenscion.

> And depending on how lucky one was in
> the timing of one's birth, one might, over the course of a year or
> two, get one, two, or three distinct transits of this kind.

Sure, retrogrades.

Saturn still stays on course with it's orbit of 29.5 years. The
retrogrades are part of that, not an exception to it.

> It would be a pretty unusual co-incidence if this Saturn transit
> happened to coincide with with the solar return, i.e., one's actual
> birthday, would it not?

I don't know. Never saw any statistics on it. I'm just noticing several
people who seemed to be "shocked" about turning 45, and that it
coincides with a particular Saturn transit for people in their early
40's these days.

My grandma was born during Saturn in short ascenscion sign (Taurus) and
got the first opposition at age 42, with subsequent passes due to
retrogrades. My own first opposition won't occur until later this
summer, age 43.5.

--
****** Keera in Norway ******
* Think big. Shrink to fit. *
http://home.online.no/~kafox/
Chris Malcolm
2004-02-09 08:03:14 UTC
Permalink
***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) writes:

>Chris Malcolm <***@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

>> ***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) writes:

>> >The significance of age 45 is that people then experience transitting
>> >Saturn opposing their birth Saturn -- something that hasn't happened
>> >since they were 15. Since Saturn is the planet of karma and dharma,
>> >fears, inner strength, and aging, and is also associated with the
>> >disciplinary parent, it can dredge up a lot of past stuff, depending on
>> >the person. Not everyone will feel this or act on it.

>> What I was doubting was the exactitude of 45. Saturn scythes through
>> the sky in a series of back and forth swoops. Depending on whether
>> one's natal Saturn was on the retrograde or progressive end of a
>> swoop, this average 45 year transiting aspect could be 44 or 46,
>> perhaps 43 or 47, could it not?

>Yes, also depending on whether Saturn was going through a sign of short
>of long ascenscion.

>> And depending on how lucky one was in
>> the timing of one's birth, one might, over the course of a year or
>> two, get one, two, or three distinct transits of this kind.

>Sure, retrogrades.

>Saturn still stays on course with it's orbit of 29.5 years. The
>retrogrades are part of that, not an exception to it.

>> It would be a pretty unusual co-incidence if this Saturn transit
>> happened to coincide with with the solar return, i.e., one's actual
>> birthday, would it not?

>I don't know. Never saw any statistics on it.

It's not really a question of statistics, it's the way the planet
moves through the sky. We can assume for the sake of simplicity that
births are evenly distributed around the year. They're not, but the
variation is insignificant compared to the effect of Saturn's movement
and retrogressions. If you browsed through an ephemeris with a
notebook you could compile the statistics in less than than an
hour. The most important factor would be the orb you allowed on the
transit, since doubling the orb would double the chances.

>I'm just noticing several
>people who seemed to be "shocked" about turning 45, and that it
>coincides with a particular Saturn transit for people in their early
>40's these days.

>My grandma was born during Saturn in short ascenscion sign (Taurus) and
>got the first opposition at age 42, with subsequent passes due to
>retrogrades. My own first opposition won't occur until later this
>summer, age 43.5.

It's the Uranian return (84 years plus or minus a couple) that's the
killer :-) And note that Uranus transitting opposition to its natal
position will occur around 42 years plus or minus one, which could
co-incide with the early 40s second Saturn opposition. That's
a combination which could freak you out :-)


--
Chris Malcolm ***@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
Keera Ann Fox
2004-02-09 17:43:06 UTC
Permalink
Chris Malcolm <***@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

> ***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) writes:
>
> >Chris Malcolm <***@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>
-snip-

> >> It would be a pretty unusual co-incidence if this Saturn transit
> >> happened to coincide with with the solar return, i.e., one's actual
> >> birthday, would it not?
>
> >I don't know. Never saw any statistics on it.
>
> It's not really a question of statistics, it's the way the planet
> moves through the sky. We can assume for the sake of simplicity that
> births are evenly distributed around the year. They're not, but the
> variation is insignificant compared to the effect of Saturn's movement
> and retrogressions. If you browsed through an ephemeris with a
> notebook you could compile the statistics in less than than an
> hour. The most important factor would be the orb you allowed on the
> transit, since doubling the orb would double the chances.

I'm sorry, I'm not following you. I thought you were asking about the
likelihood of a particular Saturn transit coinciding with someone's
exact birthday. I don't see how I could get that out of an ephemeris.

> >I'm just noticing several people who seemed to be "shocked" about turning
> >45, and that it coincides with a particular Saturn transit for people in
> >their early 40's these days.
>
> >My grandma was born during Saturn in short ascenscion sign (Taurus) and
> >got the first opposition at age 42, with subsequent passes due to
> >retrogrades. My own first opposition won't occur until later this
> >summer, age 43.5.
>
> It's the Uranian return (84 years plus or minus a couple) that's the
> killer :-) And note that Uranus transitting opposition to its natal
> position will occur around 42 years plus or minus one, which could
> co-incide with the early 40s second Saturn opposition. That's
> a combination which could freak you out :-)

Sure, but nobody I know gasped at turning 42. So I notice the ones who
gasped turning 45.

--
****** Keera in Norway ******
* Think big. Shrink to fit. *
http://home.online.no/~kafox/
Jette Goldie
2004-02-09 18:25:22 UTC
Permalink
"Keera Ann Fox" <***@online.no> wrote
> > It's the Uranian return (84 years plus or minus a couple) that's the
> > killer :-) And note that Uranus transitting opposition to its natal
> > position will occur around 42 years plus or minus one, which could
> > co-incide with the early 40s second Saturn opposition. That's
> > a combination which could freak you out :-)
>
> Sure, but nobody I know gasped at turning 42. So I notice the ones who
> gasped turning 45.


I didn't *gasp* at turning 42 - but that was when my body
started to "fall apart" on me - the arthritis that had been
only in my one ankle started showing up in *all* my joints,
and that's when I started what I see now as the first
peri symptoms.


--
Jette
"Work for Peace and remain Fiercely Loving" - Jim Byrnes
***@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
Keera Ann Fox
2004-02-09 20:27:59 UTC
Permalink
Jette Goldie <***@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote:

> "Keera Ann Fox" <***@online.no> wrote
> > > It's the Uranian return (84 years plus or minus a couple) that's the
> > > killer :-) And note that Uranus transitting opposition to its natal
> > > position will occur around 42 years plus or minus one, which could
> > > co-incide with the early 40s second Saturn opposition. That's
> > > a combination which could freak you out :-)
> >
> > Sure, but nobody I know gasped at turning 42. So I notice the ones who
> > gasped turning 45.
>
>
> I didn't *gasp* at turning 42 - but that was when my body
> started to "fall apart" on me - the arthritis that had been
> only in my one ankle started showing up in *all* my joints,
> and that's when I started what I see now as the first
> peri symptoms.

I liked 42. Had a ball with my Uranus opposition Uranus transit. Peri
started for me at age 39 (possibly 38). Don't know if there's any
astrology there. In two years I'll be 45. Let's see if I *gasp*. :-)

--
****** Keera in Norway ******
* Think big. Shrink to fit. *
http://home.online.no/~kafox/
Chris Malcolm
2004-02-10 11:12:55 UTC
Permalink
***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) writes:

>Chris Malcolm <***@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

>> ***@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) writes:

>> >Chris Malcolm <***@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

>> >> It would be a pretty unusual co-incidence if this Saturn transit
>> >> happened to coincide with with the solar return, i.e., one's actual
>> >> birthday, would it not?

>> >I don't know. Never saw any statistics on it.

>> It's not really a question of statistics, it's the way the planet
>> moves through the sky. We can assume for the sake of simplicity that
>> births are evenly distributed around the year. They're not, but the
>> variation is insignificant compared to the effect of Saturn's movement
>> and retrogressions. If you browsed through an ephemeris with a
>> notebook you could compile the statistics in less than than an
>> hour. The most important factor would be the orb you allowed on the
>> transit, since doubling the orb would double the chances.

>I'm sorry, I'm not following you. I thought you were asking about the
>likelihood of a particular Saturn transit coinciding with someone's
>exact birthday. I don't see how I could get that out of an ephemeris.

An hour or two's work taking notes and doing some calculations, but
this is probably getting too technical for non-astrologers and
non-statisticians.

>> >I'm just noticing several people who seemed to be "shocked" about turning
>> >45, and that it coincides with a particular Saturn transit for people in
>> >their early 40's these days.
>>
>> >My grandma was born during Saturn in short ascenscion sign (Taurus) and
>> >got the first opposition at age 42, with subsequent passes due to
>> >retrogrades. My own first opposition won't occur until later this
>> >summer, age 43.5.
>>
>> It's the Uranian return (84 years plus or minus a couple) that's the
>> killer :-) And note that Uranus transitting opposition to its natal
>> position will occur around 42 years plus or minus one, which could
>> co-incide with the early 40s second Saturn opposition. That's
>> a combination which could freak you out :-)

>Sure, but nobody I know gasped at turning 42. So I notice the ones who
>gasped turning 45.

There are some unpleasant warnings of things to come which happen to
folk between 40 & 50, and we've discussed some of the astrological
correlates of that. My point was that none of them actually have the
timekeeping accuracy to explain your observation of "gasping when they
turn 45". Whether one thinks in terms of astrology or or physiology,
people develop and age at different rates. So I suspect the "gasp at
turning 45" has more to do with numerical symbolism within a general
period of realising they're not going to get any younger.

Just being a sceptical astrologer!

--
Chris Malcolm ***@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
Keera Ann Fox
2004-02-10 13:03:26 UTC
Permalink
Chris Malcolm <***@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

> There are some unpleasant warnings of things to come which happen to
> folk between 40 & 50, and we've discussed some of the astrological
> correlates of that. My point was that none of them actually have the
> timekeeping accuracy to explain your observation of "gasping when they
> turn 45". Whether one thinks in terms of astrology or or physiology,
> people develop and age at different rates. So I suspect the "gasp at
> turning 45" has more to do with numerical symbolism within a general
> period of realising they're not going to get any younger.

Just struck me as odd that that's what people turning 45 did. And for
one, at least, it coincided with - I grant you - a recent Saturn
opposition. So it could be realizing they had past the "halfway point"
in their 40's and were now closer to 50 than not, and nothing more. But
people certainly responded as though there is a transit in effect, but I
guess I'd better actually look at the individual charts.

--
****** Keera in Norway ******
* Think big. Shrink to fit. *
http://home.online.no/~kafox/
Chakolate
2004-02-04 19:40:32 UTC
Permalink
"Jette Goldie" <***@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote in
news:rqUTb.5639$***@news-text.cableinet.net:

> (of course it can't help that whenever you talk to his mother
> you get the same conversation about how much pain she's
> in and how she hopes she hasn't got long to live)
>

So he's really thinking of himself when he says someone's mother is better
dead? I guess I can understand that, but it's really self-centered of him.

Chakolate

--
Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.
--Mahatma Gandhi
Barbara C Brugger
2004-02-04 20:13:45 UTC
Permalink
>From: "Jette Goldie" ***@blueyonder.com.uk

>Spent 20 minutes in the loo this afternoon at work, having
>a wee cry to myself - then another 10 minutes applying
>make up so I didn't look like a woman who'd spent 20
>minutes crying in the loo.

Have a trans-Atlantic *hug*.


>And hubby floored me by saying "Oh, I think they've got
>something much better - they'd never have had a holiday
>like that if their mum was alive" and he actually BELIEVED
>it - that it was worth two little girls losing their mother and
>a man losing his beloved wife just so they could get a free
>holiday from the BBC!!
>
>Taking this comment along with his comment a few weeks
>ago about my dad "having a much better life now that mum
>is dead" it shows how *detached* he's become.

You know, if I win a lottery, one of the things I would
do is stage the Stompy Boots O' Doom Butt Kicking Tour.
And he'd be way up on the top of the list for that one.

Barbara

"I'm peri-menopausl and own Stompy Boots. Don't push it."
Chakolate
2004-02-04 20:40:41 UTC
Permalink
***@aol.com (Barbara C Brugger) wrote in
news:***@mb-m19.aol.com:

> You know, if I win a lottery, one of the things I would
> do is stage the Stompy Boots O' Doom Butt Kicking Tour.
> And he'd be way up on the top of the list for that one.
>

Oooh, can I come? I'll carry the hose. :-)

Chakolate

--
Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.
--Mahatma Gandhi
CG
2004-02-04 22:33:17 UTC
Permalink
On 04 Feb 2004 20:13:45 GMT, Barbara C Brugger wrote:

>>From: "Jette Goldie" ***@blueyonder.com.uk
>
>>Spent 20 minutes in the loo this afternoon at work, having
>>a wee cry to myself - then another 10 minutes applying
>>make up so I didn't look like a woman who'd spent 20
>>minutes crying in the loo.
>
>Have a trans-Atlantic *hug*.
>
>
>>And hubby floored me by saying "Oh, I think they've got
>>something much better - they'd never have had a holiday
>>like that if their mum was alive" and he actually BELIEVED
>>it - that it was worth two little girls losing their mother and
>>a man losing his beloved wife just so they could get a free
>>holiday from the BBC!!
>>
>>Taking this comment along with his comment a few weeks
>>ago about my dad "having a much better life now that mum
>>is dead" it shows how *detached* he's become.
>
>You know, if I win a lottery, one of the things I would
>do is stage the Stompy Boots O' Doom Butt Kicking Tour.
>And he'd be way up on the top of the list for that one.
>
>Barbara
>
>"I'm peri-menopausl and own Stompy Boots. Don't push it."

ROFL!!!

I can think of a few stops this tour would need to make.

Cathering



-- "Everything I've ever let go of has claw marks on it." - Anne Lamott

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